Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations

Different Is Better Than Better: How Jodie Brown Helps Stylists Stand Out in the Beauty Industry

• Lisa Huff

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In this powerful episode of Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations, I’m joined by the incredible Jodie Brown — second-generation stylist turned brand strategist, educator mentor, and founder of Align Creative Co. Jodie shares her raw, real journey from life behind the chair to building a sought-after global education brand. We dive into the emotional pivot that changed everything, how she walked away at her peak, and why branding — not just better hair photos — is the true key to standing out in today’s saturated beauty industry.

If you've ever felt the pull to evolve your career or questioned how to make your mark in a crowded space, this one’s for you.

🎙️ We Talk About:

  • Jodie’s journey from salon life to international retreats
  • The emotional (and strategic) pivot that reshaped her business
  • Why “different is better than better” in branding
  • The overlooked branding mistakes most stylists are making
  • What’s actually working in marketing in 2025
  • The difference between intuition and emotional reactivity
  • Why stylists don’t need huge audiences to build a thriving business
  • The truth about Instagram today — and where else to focus your energy

🔗 Connect with Jodie:

💫 If You Loved This Episode:

  • Send Jodie a DM and let her know what resonated!
  • Tag us on IG and share your biggest takeaway (@stylistsoultribe + @itsjodiebrown)
  • Leave a 5-star review so we can keep bringing you more powerful convos like this!

Connect with Lisa Huff

Audio Only - All Participants:

Hello friends. Welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I am so excited Today I am joined by Jody Brown. Jody is a second generation stylist, turned brand strategist and founder of a Align creative company. Since retiring from behind the chair five years ago, she has taught hundreds of hairstylists, educators and creative entrepreneurs how to build standout brands, strategic content and marketing systems that scale. Today, she runs the Sought after ed educator program, hosts sold out international retreats and helps industry leaders turn their e. Expertise into sought after education brands. we were talking before we hit record, Jody and I really just got connected just like a month or so ago. we did a podcast with our friend Hunter, which I know you guys have heard a few weeks back. and I was just like, girl, I feel like I, you've been like. Kind of, I've known who you are. I've followed you distantly for a very long time. Hunter's a good judge of character and, I've seen a TikTok before that calls it friend in-laws. and so when you are friends and you like, know who they are, you're like, how's Jodi doing? What's happening? So I, I love that. I'm so excited. To get to know you a little bit more, to have a fun conversation and just kind of go from there. So go ahead and introduce yourself. Let us know kind of who you are, where you're from, and then we'll start to unpack your story a little bit. And then we'll start to talk about marketing, branding, all the fun things you have going on. Amazing. I love that term. I am so going to use that in the future. Friend of law is so good. I know. It's so true. Like when you have a best friend, you know all your best friends', best friends, but you, you're not friends with them, but you can, you're invested in their life. Yes. I love it. So true. well I feel like you did such a great job introducing me. My name is Jody Brown. I am originally from England, but I live in Canada now. that's like a big part of my why I am where I am is I've always, my family's kind of all over the place. I've always really loved to travel. and so building a location independent business, once I learned it was possible mm-hmm. Was always something that I thought about. Like, I remember being 19 years old, Googling how to get a hair job on a cruise ship. So it's kind of cool that it's all come full circle now. I'm a second generation hairstylist. My mom was a salon owner. She started as a shampoo girl At a salon in Sheffield back in England. when she was 11 years old and she went on to purchase that salon when she was 21. So yeah, it's definitely like the beauty industry is something that is like in my soul, I feel like. Mm-hmm. I always say that I teethed on perm rods. but that is a hundred percent true.'cause the type of salon my mom had was very much like community and like, you know, love. Yeah. Where it was like the community hub almost. my parents actually met because my dad, like his courting, my mom was going to get his hair shampooed once a week. So cute. I love, I love, yeah. So is that salon still standing? Where's your mom at with all of that? So, my mom actually, so that was back in England. We moved to Canada, for the first time when I was like three or four. Okay. So almost no memory living In England, yes. So we came back. So we came to Canada for the first time then. We actually moved back to the UK when I was eight. and then I lived there for three or four years before coming back to Canada. We've moved a lot. I've lived in, I think I've lived in like 36 houses. My, people always ask me if my dad was in the military. He was not. My parents just liked to flip houses and move. And what it really taught me from a young age was that. it's okay to go after what is gonna make you happy or what's gonna make your life what you want it to be. my parents, moved back to Canada after moving back to the uk we moved to a very different location and, They weren't really happy the entire time. My dad was doing great in his career. he actually moved into being a nightclub manager when we moved back to the uk, so there was so many layers. I love it. Yeah. So many layers, right? And the reason I tell this like seemingly irrelevant part of the story is because I do just think it has shaped me into. Being very adaptable, I guess. And so it allowed me to make a lot of really big moves in my life, including stepping away from behind the chair and building the business I have now. Absolutely. Adaptable is such a good word. And I feel like as a parent, I'm glad to hear you say that.'cause we have actually bounced a lot. My son hasn't experienced as much of it. There's only a three year age gap. But before my son was born, my husband and I would bounce for his work. Skyler has lived in like. I think like nine different houses, four different states. We have bounced a ton and she, I can tell she's 12 years old right now. I can tell she's already very adaptable, but I feel like there's this like narrative and there's some truth to it. There's something about being grounded of this, like stability and how kids need stability, but I love to hear your take on that and that you feel like that that's shaped you to be adaptable and that you like. Look back and like, honor and appreciate that your parents kind of went for it and did the things and didn't let, like comfort or fear or what the, what they know and what they're used to kind of keep them stuck. Yeah. Oh, it's so true. And like I got, I got like full body shivers when you said that actually for some reason.'cause it, it really does, like, looking back, it is what I attribute and my husband and I have this chat all the time because He grew up in the same house. He grew up and even just the way that. Each of us react. Like I always laugh that I'm like, little things can kind of get me. But the big stuff, as soon as there's like an actual like event that's happening. Yeah. I'm just like, so qualm. Yeah. Like I can just like really like, okay. Now I have to ask you this. When things get calm mm-hmm. Are you like one that's like the, is there like a bajillion big dreams?'cause that's both. My husband and I, and we have to calm ourselves down because we're like, no. We literally, we moved into this house. We said, we're not moving until Bennett graduates high school. Like, we're finally putting some roots down. We're not budging. There's nothing more that we need. Yeah, it's, we've been here a year. We're already talking about, again, we're not going to, I don't think we're going to, but like, do you crave, not chaos, I don't like that word, but just stimulation. Yes. That is a hundred percent accurate. Like I would say, and this is something that's actually been a lesson for me mm-hmm. Over the past five years, And I would say I've gotten a lot better at this. Yeah. Like long-term planning. Mm-hmm. But I definitely am prone, I would say, to emotional decision making and I really had to, not that it's always a bad thing,'cause some of the biggest emotional decisions I've made have been the best. Okay. But there's also been like little things in terms of like. Business decisions where now I look back and I'm like, okay, I've had to teach myself to like, and strategy and structure things ride all the way out. Mm-hmm. Gimme an example of what you would consider like an emotional decision. So one of the emotional decisions I would say I made, and I actually record a podcast episode all about this. Mm-hmm. On my, on my, on my podcast was at the end. So I, when I started as an educator mm-hmm. We can get into like how that happened. We're gonna get to that story. Yeah. But basically from 2020 to 2023, I was. Outwardly working with the, the beauty industry, like behind the chair service providers. Mm-hmm. The reason I say outwardly is because I actually started working with educators as well in 2021. Mm-hmm. So almost as soon as I started launching, I had other educators approach me and say, Hey, can you actually help me with this? I see what you're doing and I need help with like marketing or backend or whatever. But all of my courses and all of my, marketing was for hairstylist. And so. I went, I was launching and relaunching and I had a lot of success with my program at the time, beauty Biz Brand Academy and Beauty Brand Bootcamp before that. So I went to Italy and hosted my first retreat in 2023. I remember seeing that happen on Instagram. Yeah. It was so cool and it was interesting because the way that this actually happened is I went in 2022. I was with my family and I was, it's funny, you and I talked about Big Magic before we hit record. One of my other favorite books. Is the big leap. So, okay. I've heard of that. I haven't read that one. Oh my goodness. Just hire on my list mentally. Keep going. Must read. Okay. so I was reading this book and I remember my husband and my son had gone out fishing to do some sort of like little adventure. I was at Lake Garda in Italy, which is, I was sitting on the deck, I was journaling, I was reading this book. I was having my little cappuccino and charcuterie for breakfast. I remember just having the most like expansive ideas I'd ever had, and I was writing them down and I was like, I need my people to experience this. Like I need Yes. To bring this to life. Yes. And so to host the retreat, I ended up sending out five dms. Mm-hmm. And out of the five dms for my educator clients. I literally had four deposits within 24 hours. Incredible. And I was like, off to the races. That business let's go has scaled like almost insanely easily since then. Incredible. after hosting that retreat, I was like, I need to go all in. Like I need to make this work. I need to switch my education to educators and dah, dah, dah dah. Which was a great decision. The way that I implemented it was not a great decision. The way that I implemented it was too emotional. It put me through the ringer mentally and emotionally, and it really shook my confidence for a while. And this is after building. This is coming off of like. My most successful year in business Beyond what I could have imagined when I started, right? The decision that I made was to discontinue all of my education for hairstylists right then. Without giving myself an opportunity to build on anything, to think about it from a business perspective. How can we keep some of these things afloat, even if energetically we pour into what emotionally we're feeling pulled to. It doesn't mean we have to scrap everything. And what I would've done in hindsight looking back, which I always tell my clients, because I'm like, I. I'm adaptable. I will get in there, I will, you know, go through the fire and figure it out and then share afterwards kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And so that has always been, been my style. I'm a projector. Okay. I'm a manifesting generator, but I don't follow it super duper close. Okay. Yes. Okay. So it's kind of like a teach what, you know, is like one of the things that I've, that I've learned Okay. Through, it's like, that's kind of my design. Mm-hmm. teach what you've lived kind of thing, actually, rather. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so. I, in hindsight, would have continued the program for six months while allowing myself to, in the backend,'cause the program to be clear, was still getting good results. It was still working for the people that were taking it. Right. So it just wasn't quite as stimulating as the educator route was in that moment. Yeah, exactly.'cause I was detached at that point too, right? I've been in the hair industry literally my entire life. I've worked through recessions. I know the industry inside and out. And so I got in my head about I need to be behind the chair. And that was a false narrative. I did not need to be behind the chair in order to teach at a high level for the hair industry. but I got in my own head. Kept the program and discontinued it after I had built out the educator cycle on the back end. Not doing that took me, and you know, that phrase like an object in motion will always stay in motion. Cutting my education off at that stage. Made it really difficult to rebuild, to get the knowing again. And it took me and not from like a, not from like a, it was really hard to get clients' perspective.'cause I had people, like, as soon as I started bringing forward the education stuff, I had tons of people like reaching out and DMing me. But I had nowhere to put them because I had put so much weight on this evolution and I made it into. So much bigger of a deal than it needed to be. Yeah. and so that was kind of an example of that was a very emotional Yeah. No, I'm glad we went there. I'm totally glad we went there.'cause when I hear that, like when I first heard you say that,'cause I think that I can be. I don't know. I think I'm a, I'm fairly balanced from emotion and then like strategy, very feminine and masculine energy. I think I balance, like I get, people give me that feedback often that the way that I balance the two of those. But a lot of the times when I hear emotion, for me personally, I almost. Feel intuition. Mm-hmm. So that's why I was like, Hmm. Intuitively, and I think what you're saying is underneath all of that, intuitively it was the right move. Yes. The path that got you there is where the emotions was. Just like, forget everything. Forget all my business smarts. I'm going for it. My intuition is pulling me to it. Where now with this experience that you've had and the wisdom that you've gained and how I'm sure you're sharing with people now because you're a projector, is like there is a way to still follow intuition, but balance that with strategy. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Because like, that's something I've thought about a lot. Like how can you tell,'cause I think sometimes we do just have like, what is the difference between intuition and reactivity? Right? Yeah. And for me it was the internal feeling. Mm-hmm. So outwardly it probably did not look like an emotional decision. Like 20, 24 was still like a, a successful year in business. Yeah. I had, you know, my agency side, I was still working with my clients. None of the skill or none of the, like outward stuff. Like, it wasn't like I was, you know, an emotional wreck and it was affecting my client relationships and all of that kind of stuff. I think it's important To distinguish that. It was very much the internal process. And how it felt. And it felt really difficult and harder than it needed to be. Because of the way that I had gone about it, whereas. If I would've given myself and, and there was also all this talk about, you know, evolution and all of these things, which I am pro evolution, I'm pro making and going all in Jump and the, that will appear and that kind of totally vibe. Yeah. And I believe in that and it, that has been what has been really successful for me. But I think there's also a phase where, you get to a level in business where you have a lot more to. lose. And not, not just financially, but also like in your heart and soul identity, I guess. Yeah. And so that's kind of an example, but it did end up, it took. If I would've approached it differently, the outcome would have been the same. The process could have been way more nervous, system friendly. Yes, absolutely. I think that's a, I'm so glad we touched on this. I know it was a random, this is how I do, I start with a story and then we, I interrupt and we go in so many different tangents, so I'm so glad we went there. I fully believe that somebody listening to this needed to hear that exact message right now. So let's rewind back a little bit. From Canada to England, UK kind of bouncing around that's made you who you are. Tell me about when you got into the industry, obviously your mom, you know, you had that background. Did you know like as a kid that you wanted to do that? Or did you almost reject it because it was so close to you? When did you decide and how did that journey take off? Ooh, love this question. So when I was a kid, I was kind of like in between. Like, I had a lot of different things and I feel like I wanted to, I've always, from a very young age, I feel like wanted to like find myself, for lack of a better word. If someone's like, what word describes you? I would say I am a creative, like I am an artist. That is The core of who I am. So that is very much something that I've always wanted to like find. And then also like I've always been really into learning and like school and I have a bunch of weird niche interests. Like I wasn't good at high school'cause I was too busy doing other things, but like, yeah. I've always like had this, thirst for knowledge and learning No, I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. Gimme a couple weird special interests I need to know now. Oh my God. Okay. So one of them is like history, but very specific historical eras. Like the Renaissance, like Renaissance era, Florence, and like the Medici family, incredible, the War of the Roses. So it's very much like historical things. Okay. fantasy. Okay. Books, Uhhuh and Worlds. Yep. Like to the point where I'm like, I can tell you like the lore of Yes. Like you can Yes. You deep, deep, deep dive. Okay. Keep going. That kind of stuff. Yeah. So when I decided that I wanted to become a hairstylist mm-hmm. I was kind of like in between, I was like, I wanna be like a lawyer. Mm-hmm. Or I wanna be like a singer or like, I wanna do all of these different things. Yeah. And then in high school there was actually a cosmetology program. Yep. One of the things that was really cool for me is I watched my mom and she. made insanely great money working part-time. When I was in high school, even as a commission stylist, like She was over the salon owner thing mm-hmm. by the time I was a teenager. and then also I had this opportunity where I could get a ton of high school credits. Like I would say I got half of my high school credits from cosmetology. So going through that, I started doing it and I was really good at it. And I just kind of knew in probably grade 10 that that was what I was gonna do. So I turned, I'm like an October baby, so I graduated high school when I was 17. Okay. And I was in hair school when I turned 18. So like. Which is legal age in the, in Canada. and so I, yeah, I was already done high school, or sorry, hair school by the time I was 18'cause I did an apprenticeship route and I was making like really great money behind the chair, way more money than all the other high. School graduates who just Got done with school and by the t. By the time that my friends had finished their college degrees, I was already making 50 to 80% more than them after graduating university. it was something that I realized I'm kind of a, you may have gotten this from this interview. I'm very much creative and I like to have control over my own life. Like that's really my biggest motivator. and I felt like the hair industry gave me that, and it was a way to monetize my art love. So you never went any other route. You did it from high school and you're like, I'm just gonna stick with this. Till I didn't stick with it. But yes, initially when I was first in the industry, I always really wanted to be in the beauty industry. Love. And even now, like I'm adjacent to the beauty. Well, no, I'm in the beauty industry. Absolutely. I empower educators who empower stylists and other creatives. And so it's just like different ways to support it. But I've done a stint in sales at a distributor. which again, looking back was because I wanted to travel. Even though I was traveling to like Banff and Jasper and like, you know, these other places, that was the motivator. You were still tied to your regular clientele and that's how the money came in for a long time. So, what was your position like? Were you in a salon? Were you in a studio? Did you ever own a salon? What was that position? And then when did this, I'm gonna call it your big magic, when did you decide to shift away from behind the chair? Okay, so how in depth do you want the story? I mean, we're, how far in? We started a time, I mean, we're 20 minutes in. Okay. So gimme a version. I want all of it, but I, being mindful of the podcast, gimme the important stuff. So the hair industry, I've done it all. I started in commission salons. I moved a lot. When I was,'cause I was, you know, I guess I was very much a seeker back in the day. And so I moved a lot. I worked at commission salons. I was an independent stylist because I moved to a small town in BC Where there weren't any commission salons. So that was my first foray into independence. And then I was working in sales, At a distributor. So I was repping like joco, Lanza, like those types of Product lines. And then I got pregnant with my son. so when I got pregnant with my son, what year was that? That was in 2013. So I had been in the industry since 2006 at that point. Yeah. It was a brief stint in sales. I wanted to get into a different part of the industry. Because like we said, it was that, like being tied to the location. once I got pregnant with my son, I was like. This isn't really gonna work for me, I had a really big territory. I was driving a lot and my husband was working out of town, so I knew that I would have to quit that job. I had to stop pretty early in my pregnancy. Like, I think I was like six months or something. But I was having some like, not complications for the baby, but I was having a lot of pain and just like things weren't going super well with my job. Yeah. And so I stepped away, and then after he was born. He was about, and keep in mind, I'm in Canada, taking a year off is the norm, right? Yes, I have heard that. Mm-hmm. but because I was an independent, like I was not an employee as a sales rep. I was a contractor. I didn't get any of the maternity leave. Which is, you know, Probably the case for a lot of, a lot of stylists listening. And so I had worked at a salon, like a really high-end salon years in the past. The manager of that salon was opening a new one, so she messaged me and was like, Hey, I don't know if you're planning on coming back to the industry. Like I know you just had a baby, but if you would be interested, I would love to hire you. Like I would love for you to come and work at the salon. so I tried to go back when he was five months old. Childcare was a nightmare. Just did not work out. So then I took a little bit of extra time off and then I did end up going back to that salon. This is kind of where it gets interesting. I grew up in the era of like, you got your clients from, you know, staying at a really great salon for a long time. Marketing was not a thing that Silas had to think about when I got into the industry. That was the salon owner's problem. or you know, it was like. Very much a grassroots thing. Yeah. And so when I went back to the salon A, I was living out of town, so I had a 35 minute commute. Mm-hmm. B, this is a brand new salon in a brand new area that was still literally under construction. And so there was no reputation, no walk in traffic, no nothing. Yeah. Three. I had a childcare bill for the first time in my career. Yeah. So you gotta get creative. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, man, so I started listening to marketing podcasts, like, there wasn't even, this was in 2000. 15 or late 2015, maybe 2016. So I, there was no hairdresser podcast like I looked and the first one came out like two years after that. yeah. So I was listening to things like the Gold Digger podcast online marketing made easy things that were outside of the hair industry, but I was able to take those concepts and apply them. I chose Instagram as my method And I was able to build and grow a clientele. Really quickly. the more intentional I got, the more, this was also kind of when balayage was becoming, it was like the new thing. which was, it's so wild to think It's like, wait anymore? That was 10 years ago. It is crazy. And now that you think of it like, can you even imagine something new coming out with the same magnitude and the same shift that the industry had, It was like the rise of social media and technology I mean it was an era. It was an era for sure. long story short, that salon ended up being. The worst employment experience I've ever had in my life. Wow. Like it was real a gong show and I drove past it not that long after. it was literally getting repoed, like, everything that could have gone wrong in terms of like the responsibility, like of like, it was beautiful, but it was like, I don't know if I'm gonna get my paycheck next week. Yeah. And so I was like, this is not gonna work. I need to figure out a different path. And so. I ended up moving to a different salon. Now this is the first time I'd ever moved in the same city. And also with the advent of social media and like, I think I lost one client in the move. Incredible. Which is. Unheard of. Especially for any hairstylist who came up, before the 2000 tens. I feel like you'll understand like what a, but that's when like the branding really solidified to you. Oh, these people are here for me and we will go to the end of the earth together. They are invested in my life. They are. I mean, yes. It really was a time where the people who got on board Yeah. and shared their story. Yep. It's hard to get. the following that attached these days. Yeah. Because there's so much out there now. A hundred percent. And like I had just to make this very, very like, clear when that happened, I had like 900 followers on Instagram. Like it was not a, like, I think when you hear that story you're like, oh, like you must have had this huge loyal following. Not at all. No. But actually like 200 of those were your actual clients that paid you regularly. Yes. Yeah. So that's huge. A hundred percent. And so when I, when I moved, I became an independent stylist. Mm-hmm. And so actually I was there, I was at this salon for probably like,'cause I still had a lot of fear. And also like in the background, my husband and I, were going through like a secondary infertility journey. And so, I mean, that's, that is huge. Yeah. And like with it being Canada and with the fact that I was like, I really wanna get maternity leave next time. Because it was really stressful. Like, and I can only imagine like, there's a lot of countries that don't have M leave at all. And so, yeah. That was something that was kind of on my mind. I was like, I had a lot of fear around going independent because of that. It was helping dictate your decisions Exactly. Decisions at that time. Yeah, exactly. So then I went over and I became a commission stylist at this other salon, but it very much was like. Like the agreement was like, you're a commission stylist, but you've got all the flexibility that you need. Essentially. Yeah. Everyone else is a chair renter. It was a great arrangement for the salon owner.'cause I brought all my own clients. Mm-hmm. It was all profit for her. Yeah, exactly. And it worked out really, really well until it didn't, until she started hiring other commission stylists. I was totally fair in the sense that I get having to have the same standards for everyone. Yeah. But it no longer worked for me. And so,'cause again, my husband worked outta town. Flexibility was mandatory for me with a child. and where I lived at the time. And so I ended up going independent then. And so. Yeah. Then that was when I really started to like experience the beauty of building your brand on social. Because I was able to like attract clients and I started for the first time having clients who were coming in, like I'd kind of cracked the code at that point. And it wasn't just posting hair photos, which. Worked in 2015. Yeah. It was like building your brand And doing so really intentionally. and I started having clients that were driving an hour or more to come see me. Who were not questioning the pricing, who were really just like bought and sold on what I did. I remember the first time I saw a. Like inspo photo for my own Instagram. And I was like, oh, wow, I made that. so that was kind of my journey through the hair world. by the time I stepped away, I had been working as a hairstylist for 15 or 16 years. I started working in a salon as a receptionist when I was like 15 and I was done hair school by the time I was like 17. Well, and even like you said, even I'm sure saying 15 to 16 years doesn't even feel right either because you grew up in the salon. What was the pull when you decided. Okay. I love this. I obviously see the power of this. When did you wanna start sharing that and what was, was it travel? What was the main thing that really made you no longer wanna continue to scale that business and go a different direction? So there was a couple different things for a while. Like I had started to become the person who like a lot of my peers and like friends in the industry,'cause I've been in the industry for so long, everyone I knew is a hairstylist. Yeah. And so a lot of my friends who had their own businesses were coming and asking questions wanting to learn more, wanting to know how I was doing what I was doing In my mind though, there was already like Jamie Dana, who I love. And who I've actually worked with at this point but she was already doing it. And I was like, at that point in my mind I was like, well, someone amazing is already doing it. No. Although when there's one person, now it's 2025 and you're like, there's 10,000 people that can do anything you can think of with the act back then. And that The fear that holds so many people back. And that goes to show that it doesn't matter if a market feels saturated right now.'cause even back when there was just one person playing big, it still felt like you didn't have a seat at that table. A hundred percent. And that is like, that's the reason that I share that part is'cause it's like. That was the thing, like just one person who I looked up to doing already, they didn't, didn't want stuff on their toes or do, yeah, yeah. That was enough. Right. And like since then, we've literally had conversations where I told her that and she was like, oh my God. And lots of my students have learned from her It's so funny now and seems so silly, but it's so real. That's so real. And even those things will still creep up a tiny little bit. what ended up happening is I was going through a secondary infertility journey, if anyone who's ever dealt with infertility or any sort of issues like that, it was very all consuming. Like my mental state was very fragile. It very, very fragile. It holds your whole entire identity. Like it really becomes your identity. It's hard for it not to. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. And it was like very much like depression, like mm-hmm. Like. Extreme depression and it really was a difficult time. so yeah, I that it was a very difficult time, so I remember this specific moment, like speaking of, you know, big magic. Mm-hmm. And I know we both kind of. You know, have believe in in, yeah. And share this kind of thing. And I feel like there's several moments that that came together. One of them was when I remember just like having the hardest time my husband had gotten laid off. I was not seeing any of my friends because I was really depressed. I tend to like cocoon into myself. Mm-hmm. And I remember being on the phone. I had just gone to bar class or something, so I was like trying so hard. I was like trying to pull myself out of this. And So I went to an exercise class and I remember I got to my car and I started crying. I called my dad and I was like, everything feels so hard. And I just, Like, I just don't know how I can continue. Like everything is just so hard. Everything feels hard. And anyone who's ever dealt with depression, It doesn't always make sense. Yeah. For the way the situation you're in, it's like feels so much heavier and more difficult and harder. after I hung up the phone, I opened my Instagram and I had a message from an educator who, lives about three hours from me. She went on to become my first coach. she sent me a message and she was like, Hey, I'm hosting a class in Edmonton and there are a couple spots left. If you wanna come, let me know. I would love to have you. I'd love to meet you in person. The reason I say that I wasn't seeing any of my friends is like my initial reaction to this was absolutely not. I do not wanna be in a room full of strangers. I do not wanna meet anyone. There's no chance that I'm doing this. And then I just had this like little pull inside me that was like, and I, before I even thought about it, I was like, yeah, of course I would love to come. Yeah. Well, especially in that moment, having just broke down to your dad to like, I mean, you're, when you're at rock bottom, like, where can we go but up? So to get that message at that exact time, I believe match it. Yeah. It felt serendipitous. It really did. And so I go to this class, and this was in February of 2020. Mm-hmm. I went to this class and, it was about business and balayage, incredible class. Everything was great. At the end of it, there was a q and a portion. Mm-hmm. And a large percentage of the questions were about social media. And the first time someone asked a question, the educators like, I don't really teach that.'cause her whole thing is growing without social. And so this stylist and all of these stylists were like salon owners, very successful. No one was a beginner. Like it was very much like they were doing great things. Anyway. And as soon as this person asked the first question about social, it felt like. A slow motion moment where I was like out of myself and I was watching everyone, and as soon as she said it, all of these other stylists were like, oh my God, I hate this. Like, it's such a burden. I hate that we have to do this. It's not working. And that was the moment that I realized It's loud and clear. Even though there are people who are doing this, it doesn't mean that everyone is getting the support that they need, and that means there's a space for me to make a difference. In an industry I love, I'd fall in more in love with the marketing and the business side than the hair side. A year or more before this point. And then when the world shut down two weeks later, I was like, you have nothing but time. This is my, this is my opportunity. So I did something that I wouldn't necessarily recommend, and I contacted the owner of the salon and I was like, listen, I'm not coming back. I'm going to be terminating my chair rental. And just paid out whatever the lease was. I contacted all my clients and let them know, referred them to other people and I just decided to go all in. I registered for a social media, management course. I invested$5,000 in a mastermind before I made any money. Amazing. And here we are. The beginning. Oh my God, that's such a good story. See, I'm glad that you shared that. I, before we hit record, everybody, Jody was like, like, what topics are we going into? And while I know it could be such a valuable episode, I can't have as good of a conversation until I get that context. So I'm so, so, so grateful. I know it's a lot to unpack. Thank you for opening up and being vulnerable about all the hard times as well, because I definitely think that telling your story and sharing those times is. So important and, and really gets the point across to people and shows everyone that no matter what it looks like from the outside looking in, that is never what it is behind the scenes. So absolutely incredible. So since around COVID, you've been all in Yeah. Serving stylists, educators, salon owners. So what does. Today look like. What does 2025 look like? How are you spending your time? How are you supporting people right now? Yeah, so this 2025 has been the year of like 20, 24 introspection, deep work, you know, all of the things. This year everything has clicked and I finally feel like I feel. More aligned now than even in the beginning of my business where I felt like I was, like, the purpose in the work was huge. Mm-hmm. So now I have a content marketing and like copy, company called Align Creative Co. And so I help educators and some salon owners as well with their organic marketing efforts. So. We do content, we do, newsletters, like all of those types of things. Organic only on that side. And then my, where I'm spending most of my time right now is actually I have a program called Sought After Educator. And that is a coaching program that helps educators build a sought after brand land opportunities, build out their marketing systems and create something really scalable. Because I had a lot of, educators come to me who'd had great success on social. But as we all know, the game has changed and it is such a risky move now. So one of the things that I really am passionate about is helping educators build something sustainable, helping them understand marketing foundations and like, know what to fix because I just got so tired of watching people burnout and like have These incredible gifts to share and not be able to do so because there is such a learning curve when it comes to the skillset required to build an online business. And so, absolutely. that is how I'm spending a lot of my time now as well as hosting retreats? So we have done, this year we only did one just because I was rebuilding everything. next year, usually we do them twice a year. Amazing. And what's the next upcoming one? The next upcoming one is in Rome in October. So that is sold out and then in May of 2026, we have one coming up in Greece. Amazing. There's two spots left on that one. Amazing. Love, love, love. How cool. And I got chills when you said it finally feels like it clicked. And I love how you compared it to when your business was booming.'cause I actually am in a pretty similar stage right now where it's like. I'd, I'd been intuitively following this for so long. I've been putting one step in front of the other. I felt aligned all the while and, and on. Even on paper, we've been trending upward all the while, but you hit a point where you're just like, Ooh, I finally kind of found this groove. This is working. This is working well. Similar to that feeling of like, I remember behind the chair of like, Ooh, I got something really going here. It's really flowing. It's not this like, you know, swimming against the current constantly. Yeah. It's like a good flow. So I love to hear that you're in that spot right now. Okay, so I, we probably should wrap up soon, so I'd love to just finally wrap up on is I'd love to know. In 2025.'cause like you said, so much has changed and I agree and I feel like a lot of people, I feel like we were earlier to the education game. It took a lot of the industry a little bit more time to get fully on board and what I think is that some people are still regurgitating or thinking about what worked not that long ago, but what I feel like has definitely shifted. So you are just like pulse on the industry. I'd love to know. I'd love to know what you're thinking about, just when you think about marketing as a whole in mid 2025, where do you feel like energy is best spent? How would you describe it? What's your take? So I do still think that Instagram is a really great opportunity. Even if it is not the biggest, Like the visibility is a little bit harder to get now. Totally on Instagram. I think we've all seen that. However, it is still a really solid place for brand building. And for like, not just nurturing, but like really establishing authority. And so with that, I also think though, that we really need to be focusing on moving our clients or potential clients. Onto platforms that we have a little bit more control over, such as email I think is really important. And for stylists, I think for the educator space and all these things, I think that there's some things that we can take and some things that we can learn totally. That are a little bit cutting edge still in the salon space. Right. So it's not as cutting edge in other industries. Totally. It's like best practice. But I think we can utilize things like, lead magnets, for example. For hairstylists and they can get opt-ins, many chat. Like we, I think we could really be utilizing that a lot more in the salon industry and taking what's working well and really building on that. Yeah. I also think relationships and cross promotions are a really important way and, and I did this behind the chair and I've still seen it working, but like building relationships with other local business owners. Yes, that is a great way to get visibility because smaller accounts right now also have a bit of an advantage and so absolutely. That's something that's kind of like almost a quick hot, you know, tip that you can take Well, and it's taking, it's combining grassroots with, and I think people think of those as two very separate things. But I think if there can be a grassroots in like physical, in-person relationship that then is highlighted online, I think that just magnifies it and multiplies it. So I agree. Even still, I think I always talk about like. Almost like maintenance or passive marketing versus aggressive marketing. And I feel like there's, you know, we should always keep the steady things flowing, keeping all, all the boxes checked, all the typical things we need to do. But then there's periods of time where you can get more aggressive. And I agree. I think I will often say who's around? What's around? Yeah. Where are people hanging out? Are you a small town where the coffee shop is locally owned and it's a big deal? Are you a big city where, you know, two doors down, there's a med spa? Like what's happening in your area? I agree. Wholeheartedly. the biggest advice that I think like. I foundationally will always say, and this is a really old saying, but I think it will always remain true, is that branding is the art of differentiation. the phrase that I love is Zig, where other people zag wherever you can be different. Like different is better than better And so if you can stand out, like if other salons in your area are not utilizing things like. Instagram and Facebook advertising. Yeah. If they're not utilizing, blogging for example, like there's a ton of different ways that you can stand out. And what I think is really important to figure out is number one, where your people are hanging out. Number two, what you want to be known for and your brand, and how does that tie back to what the people in your area want. Because I think it's very easy to think of branding as this abstract practice You know, like being yourself on the internet and, and I actually think that there's been a lot of advice that has led to the oversimplification of the branding process. This is something I've been bringing forward since 2020 when not a lot of other people were talking about branding for hairstylists. Whereas now everyone's talking about personal branding, but I feel like because of that, there is that regurgitated information. That doesn't necessarily get to the root of it. And so I think that spending your time, if you're not getting results from your marketing, spend time on your branding That's a huge piece. I wanna zoom in on just'cause it was so good and you've said so much since then, but it was so good and it still stuck with me. Sometimes different is better than better. I think stylist, salon owners, anyone will get some new business advice and in their head they probably aren't even aware that they're doing it, but they'll have this moment of like, oh, that's blogging, let's say for example. But nobody arounds me is doing it. So that probably tells me that this market wouldn't want that if nobody around you is doing it. Take that as the moment of nobody around you is doing it. That's what can differentiate you. I love that. And I also love what you said a while back when I asked originally, and I could tell you said Instagram, but you had to back it up. Instagram is not what it used to be. We were on the first few years of it becoming a. Thing, but it had this super crazy, trek upwards. It's not like that goes away, it's just stabilized. It is not going anywhere. We know how to use it now. It's not this wildfire that you have to jump on board with. there's been enough time that the structure, the stability, the systems, the processes are now known. And it's not gonna be as fast of growth or as, volatile of growth, but it is not going anywhere and there are ways to utilize it. And let me share an example. So I have like back in 2021. My account was organically reaching a million different people a month. Like that the reach was. Insane. Incredible. I'm not making less money now though, in my business and now like I pivoted to speak, like my content is for educators, so that counts out a large percentage of my followers, which means that my engagement has, you know, dropped as has everyone's. Yeah. If you look at the biggest accounts in the industry Totally. You compare the following to the, like views and engagement. Yeah. You are probably doing better than you think you are. Yeah. I think we need to drop our expectation. Mm-hmm. And think about the way that engagement, happens differently. But I shared a reel on Saturday before it had, I looked at how many views this real had. Yeah. It had less than 70 views on this one reel, and someone, an educator on the other side of the world saw that message was like, this is exactly what I need, and signed up for my program less than 30 minutes later. Incredible, incredible. Exactly right. So when we talk about like, oh, we need all this reach. No, no, no. What you need is a message that resonates. And I always say create for your ideal client and optimize for the algorithm. Don't create for the algorithm'cause it's a losing battle. even going back to branding and just business structures back in 2020 when you quit your job and you had this, you could have been reaching a million people, but like you said, you didn't have the brand, you didn't have the structure, you didn't have the offer, you didn't have the systems in place to make the impactful sale that you can make today. And so I think it's important to just share that the metrics and the things that we, you can see so easily from the outside in no way, shape, or form, correlate with the success of anyone's business and where they're at. Oh no, not at all. And that's the thing, it's like you, I think comparison is not only the thief of joy. Mm-hmm. I feel like it is the killer of confidence and businesses before they can even get off the ground. Because if you are looking at mm-hmm. Everyone else's engagement And you're looking at influencers and you're looking at, you know, the people who are selling like$7 products or whatever. As a stylist, you need to build a lot more trust than that. Like the amount of trust built to purchase like a$7 Instagram course. Like I'm thinking of like a specific, like really big Instagram educator who has some really great things to say, but still it's like, the advice I think for hairstylists, doesn't always translate because people really need to trust you in order to come and sit in your chair. It's a very intimate personal relationship. And so I think that it's so much more important to focus on that trust building content. Make sure that people understand what you do, who you do it for, and why it matters. How is this gonna solve their problem? I think if you can make those three things clear, that's what I say to my educator clients as well. Those are truly the three things that people need to understand when they land on your page. And if you can do that, you are going to be orders of magnitude ahead of the rest of the, the people in your area. So good. What a good episode. I knew it was gonna be good, but it was even better than I could have expected. I'm glad we got your story outta the way. I'm glad I know you enough now, to call you a friend. Jody, I'm so grateful that you opened up that we got to connect. I'm sure we will do more episodes,'cause like I said, we can dive into the nitty gritty, but I needed to know, like your backstory, I needed to know you on a deeper level. So thank you so much for opening up. we're gonna do a couple podcast episodes over on Jody's couple of podcasts, so we'll do that in the future. So you guys definitely be on the lookout for more. Is there any. Thing you wanna plug, Jody? What can I put in the show notes? How can people get in touch with you after listening to this? So the best place to come hang out with me is on Instagram. Send me a dm. I would love to know if anything resonated with you. if you learned anything, if you have any questions, send me a DM over on Instagram at it's Jody Brown. and right now if you wanna come hang out in Greece and learn about sales and marketing and building your brand, head to escape to elevate.com. Amazing. I'll link all of that in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jody. Thank you everybody for listening. like I said, everything that you need to know will be down in the show notes and I will talk to you all next week. Bye. Thank you so much for having me.