From Brows to Business: Sydney Hamman on Mastering Permanent Makeup, Clients & Work-Life Balance

In this episode of Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations, I’m joined by Sydney Hamann, a 14-time certified cosmetic tattoo artist and the owner of Evermore Aesthetics in Normal, Illinois. Sydney shares her incredible journey from Ulta employee to thriving business owner, navigating the rapidly growing world of permanent makeup.

We dive into:
🔥 How she transitioned from hair and makeup to permanent cosmetics
🔥 The scrappy beginnings of her career and how she built her clientele
🔥 The evolution of microblading, powder brows, nano brows, and lip blush
🔥 Her pricing strategies, referral programs, and business growth
🔥 Why mentorship and community over competition matter in the beauty industry
🔥 Finding the perfect work-life balance and overcoming burnout

If you’ve ever considered permanent makeup, are a beauty pro looking to level up, or love a good business success story, this episode is for you!

💡 Connect with Sydney:
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/evermoreestheticsnormal/

🎧 Listen, Subscribe & Leave a Review!
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📩 Join the Stylist Soul Tribe:
Want to grow your beauty business with mindset, strategy, and community? Learn more about Stylist Soul Tribe here → https://www.stylistsoultribe.com/

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Transcript

Audio Only - All Participants: 0:00

Hello, friends. Welcome back to Stylistle Tribe Conversations. I am joined today by Sidney Hammond. Sidney is a 14 time certified cosmetic tattoo artist and owner of Evermore Aesthetics in Normal, Illinois. So she is in my neck of the woods. She prides herself on creating custom, natural looking results for each of her clients and is passionate about cultivating a community of thriving, supportive cosmetic tattoo artists. in an industry that is seeing rapid growth. Sidney and I connected. over a year ago now, which is wild. I think we just kind of found each other on Instagram being local to each other. You know, we're both kind of promoting our businesses and she asked me to grab coffee a little over a year ago, and I got to know her a little bit. Then we've been really supporting each other on Instagram since then, but we really haven't had a chance to catch up in a long time. she will introduce herself and just kind of tell her story. We have a few kind of talking points we want to go over. I just thought it would be fun. How are you doing Sydney? I'm good. Thank you for having me on. I'm really excited because I've like listened to your podcast. pretty much I think since, since we've met at least. Amazing. and I always thought it'd be really fun to come on here. So I'm really excited to, yeah, literally just chat. Cause I could chat with other, like, especially like beauty industry professionals for Hours and hours as long as they're willing to so I'm saying and if you listen and then you know that so thank you So much for listening. That means the world to me Sometimes I forget like I obviously know some stylists will try to listen or your members listen But sometimes I forget that there's like actually people paying attention and listening when I put these on I know that's silly, but it is kind of like a trip. Um, so amazing. Okay So tell, go back in time, tell a little bit of your story, how you got into like this career field, this industry, and then we'll kind of go from there, but I would just want to know more about you. For sure. So it's really weird. I feel like every time I tell the story of how I got started in this industry, I like try to keep it short and sweet, but it's, It feels impossible because every little thing kind of like led to me doing what I do now So I always have been really passionate about makeup and the beauty industry in general and art And when I was in junior high and high school I always thought I wanted to be a makeup artist. That was like my dream. And I was also really into graphic design and like, you know, just kind of creative stuff like that. in high school, we had a career center at my high school and I was getting ready to go into my junior year where I could do one of the career center programs. And I knew I wanted to do that. I've always, I guess, just like been very interested in business and like building my career and things like that. So I was going back and forth between the cosmetology and graphic design programs. And my graphic design teacher at the time was like discouraging me from doing the cosmetology program. Cause he said, you're not going to make any money doing makeup. And he like scared me out of it. So I did the graphic design program, which was a lot of fun, then I went to the community college after I graduated because my plan was to get. A bachelor's degree. I don't, I don't even know what I wanted to do at that time. It was either graphic design or something in business. I did one year at community college and then was like, I hate this. This is not for me. I stopped at community college after a year, went to Paul Mitchell and got my cosmetology license with the idea of. I wanted to still do makeup, but I said, like, let me get my cosmetology license, so that way I can do other things, too, if I want to. So while I was going to Paul Mitchell, I got a job at Ulta. I was working at Ulta, and I did a bunch of different things there. I was doing, just, like, cashiering. I, after I graduated, ended up working in the salon. I worked in the salon for about six months. Did you do hair in the salon? I did do hair in the salon. Awesome. I didn't think I was bad at doing hair. I thought I was pretty good, and you were brand new, so nobody's good at that point. You probably could have become good. and this was in, 2017, so ombres and balayages were like All over the place, I was doing a lot of them, and I thought I was doing a good job, then one day my manager pulled me aside and was like, Hey, love her so much, I still talk to her. But she was like, hey Sydney, I want to have a one on one about how to do a balayage. And I was like, oh, and I had just done one the day before. Yeah, I was like, okay. So that kind of made me think about things. And then I was like, maybe I'll try to get into management at Old Hooks. I had been there for like three years at this point and in a bunch of different positions. And I applied for a management job, but somebody else got it. And then they were like, well, if you want full time. There's a position at the Brow Bar, which is the Benefit Brow Bar at Ulta, which is just waxing and tinting brows and then doing like other facial waxing, basically. And in all of my years working at Ulta, I would walk past the Brow Bar and see people doing that, like waxing brows all day, and I would literally think to myself, I would hate doing eyebrows all day. But I was like, you know what, it's hourly, I can use my cosmetology license for it, I get tips. I'll just do it. Yeah, so I ended up getting that job and after like a week or two weeks of me just like waxing brows I realized I loved it and I was actually really good at it So that was really funny because I never ever thought that I would want to do that. How wild after about a year and a half of doing that, I just wanted to keep growing and building. that was when microblading started to get really popular in about 2018. So there weren't a ton of training programs at the time. I did a lot of research on where to go. I ended up finding, at the time it was called America Microblading Academy, but they changed the name to Allure Microblading Academy. They're based in Houston. They're still open. Lily Tain, she's the one who owns it. She's amazing. I love her. but they travel around the country basically. I don't know if they still do or if they're just in Houston now, but they were teaching a class in Chicago. So I took out a small loan so that I could afford to do that It was a three day microblading course in Chicago and it was over my, 22nd birthday that I was doing that. And, yeah, I took my first microblading course and that would have been the end of September 2018. And yeah, that was my first one. But I've been doing it ever since. So then when did you start like putting this into practice and offering this as a service? Because if you were at Benefit Brow Bar, they weren't offering that. So did you go independent right away? Or what did that look like? So every training place is so different with permanent makeup. I'm very grateful that the place that I went to Actually makes you work for your certification because unfortunately a lot of places don't yeah Yeah, and there aren't as many regulations on it as I think there should be but the place where I took my course You did a three day in person training The first day was just kind of learning the basics about micro and it was just micro blading There's so many different technique that techniques now, but back then it was just micro blading. Mm hmm. So just learning the basics Practicing everything on like latex, just getting some hands on practice. Day two, we spent like the first half of the day doing the same thing. And then the second half, we got to observe our trainer doing like a full procedure. And then the third day, we had to do our own models. Of course, under very, direct supervision. so, that was what the actual course entailed. And then they gave us a certificate of attendance. Okay. You know, acknowledging that we took the course. And then it was our responsibility to go home and basically practice on Latex. And then there was a Facebook group where we would submit our pictures. And then the instructors, they would get on their iPad with their little stylus and kind of like correct and kind of show you what to work on. And then basically you would just keep submitting pictures and fixing things until they approved you to work on your models. Then you had to find models to work on. And you're like, Hey, I'm brand new to this. Let me tattoo your face. Exactly. I got very lucky. I got really lucky because I was working at Ulta. I went to Paul Mitchell. So I knew a lot of people who were just so down to get their eyebrows microbladed. And luckily they trusted me. I think having some experience in cosmetology and makeup helped me a lot. so I think I did about 30 models. just kept sending in pictures and getting feedback. And that took from about, late November. Until early February of 2019 for me to get, my actual certification, but I had quit my job at Ulta when I got the okay to do my models and I was literally doing Uber full time. Okay. Where were you doing the models at? Did you have, a physical location? Okay, so. This is fun. I love scrappy Uberies. I know. I know. So I was under the impression, which, again, it's like. It was such a new thing, and I was just listening to my instructor, which she's not with the company anymore. That's not Lily. This is someone else. I was listening to my instructor. So, she said, well, as long as you're not charging anyone and it's just a model, you can do it wherever. Which, like, yeah, I think technically that's true, but, like, you still shouldn't be tattooing someone in a place where, like, they wouldn't give you a tattoo facility license. But anyway, I had a room set up in my dad's house. And it was set up really nice. Like I had everything he was so accommodating and helpful because I was living in a studio apartment at the time. I'm not doing it there No, and you know i'm doing models for free. So I don't have The income to have a space. Yeah, correct. And also who's gonna hire me when i'm not even certified totally so that was really tricky so yeah, I just had to set up at my dad's and I was just doing them there And, once I got certified, I, yeah, I just dove right into, renting a suite. How neat. And is that where you are now? No. So, I actually, I knew a girl that I had worked with at the Ulta in Bloomington. Her name was Miranda. She's super cool. She had let me know that there was a salon in East Peoria that she had worked at previously and they were looking for someone to do microblading. And I was living in Bloomington at the time and East Peoria is about a 30 minute, 30 to 45 minute drive. But I went and checked it out. The owners of the salon were super cool and nice. I love them. and it was a super cute salon. I loved it. And the room was pretty tiny, but it had everything I needed. It had non porous flooring. It had a working sink. It had a door, which was everything I needed to get, licensed as a, tattoo facility. Which in Illinois, every state's different. So to offer microblading and permanent tattooing in Illinois, The facility that you're working in has to be licensed as a body art facility. I did learn that because I tried to get a tattoo artist to come to my Chicago retreat to do like micro tattoos. Oh, yeah. For that reason. Yes. And they have to get like a very specific type of, I've never done that, but I know it's really hard to get, just a temporary permit for that. So yeah, wherever I worked had to have everything up to my specification. They showed me the room. They said it was 300 a month. which is now I'm like, that's The steel of the century. at the time I was just starting out, you were like, should I need to find some clients that will pay me that? I'm like, I don't have any clients. And so I asked them if they would do commission and they were like, yeah, you could do commission, They were very honest with me.'cause they would've made more off of me, honestly. Yeah. If I did commission. But they were like, you should just do booth rent, you'll make a lot more money. Mm-hmm I, they were like, I think you'll be fine. Like they don't want to have to manage you either. Yeah. And now I having my own like studio. I know that it's, I'm like, no, please just do booth rent. and I'm so glad I did. It worked out well. So I ended up doing booth rent there. I worked there. That was the beginning of 2019. I worked there for about a year and then post COVID, I ended up, I started to, my, my friend Lexi, who I work with now, still, she had a suite at the salon suites place, in Bloomington. And she had asked me if I wanted to just like. Share it with her because I had talked to her about wanting to work in Bloomington because I was just tired of the commute. and she was pretty part time I think and it just worked out with our schedules where we could just take turns using that room So we did that for about a year and then we just moved into a bigger room in that same space And then both of our businesses were just growing so much. We were like, let's move somewhere with multiple rooms Oh, yeah, so that we don't have to like Take turns using the room all the time. We can work together. We can get more people in there if you want And in oh gosh, so what it was 2024. That was the third year. So it would have been September of 2021. Okay. We opened Evermore Aesthetics. Wow. And you've been there for three years now and it is a beautiful space. Almost four, yeah. Wow. Thank you. What a fun story. That's amazing. Yeah, it's very long winded. Yeah, no, I, I, no, I like hearing that and I like hearing the scrappy beginnings. I was surprised to hear that you've been independent the entire time because that really is. Tricky. I wasn't independent fresh out of beauty school. I think my frontal cortex had to develop before I could have become independent because I just did not have that in me. so I think that's incredible. so fun. So cool. So what all do you offer when you say there's so many different types of cosmetic tattooing now? What all is there? I'm thinking of somebody listening to this who's like, oh, that could be a cool route, like really green after getting their cosmetology license or really fresh into this. That could be a cool route to go. What, what does that consist of now? Yeah. So again, it just depends on where you live. there are some states that do require you to have a cosmetology or aesthetics license to offer this, but in Illinois, you don't. I agree that for people who are just interested in the beauty world in general, it is a really awesome route to take and another thing that you can learn and it's grown and evolved so much just since I even started doing it in 2018. And will continue to, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And like I was saying, Back in 2018 when I learned microblading was like the only thing and oh my gosh, I could go on about this for hours. But microblading itself is not the best option for everybody when it comes to like their skin and their goals and everything like that. so since then, I think the first thing that kind of became popular after that was manual shading. So you could add some like, Shading and density with pigment in between the little hair strokes But that again was just done with a manual blade really similar to the micro blade Which is essentially just like cutting into your skin and then there's powder brows now, which it goes by a lot of different things It depends on the artist what it's referred to. I always call it powder brows. People call it ombre brows Okay, ombre powder brows microshading that all essentially refers to kind of a more like filled in look. It's still very, or the goal, it's supposed to look very natural if it's done correctly. Totally. but that's more common now, especially because it works for a lot of different skin types. There's also nanobrows, or again, people call it nanobrows. Feather brows. Nano feather brows. Yeah. the, again, there's so many different terms for it. It's, it's like boyage baby lights. Exactly. All the buzzwords. Yep. Yeah. So nano brows gives a little bit more of that hair like appearance that microblading gives but it's done with a machine Okay, um, which nano brows or powder brows are done with a machine? So It's a little less traumatic to the skin. So more people with certain skin types are able to do it. Okay. So there's all those different techniques for brows and then there's also lip blush, which I do offer lip blush. I love doing lips. I've been doing a lot of them lately and I feel like that's just going to keep growing and getting really popular. Especially because I feel like, and I mean this is gonna be a dramatic statement, but I feel like filler is like kind of like not what it used to to be like, I, the guy that's been out for years and people have learned about migration. I agree. I could see the, the lip blushing continuing to grow and grow. Yes, especially because now I have filler. I need to get it solved. But Now since, like, having filler for so long and learning about lip blush and knowing what I know about lip blush, I look back and I'm like, I don't know if I even wanted filler. I think what I wanted was something like lip blush. Exactly. I wanted the definition. and then people like myself who have too much filler, the thing with, and I have nothing against filler. after I get mine dissolved, I'll probably get it again in the future. For sure. It's not as much. But the thing with filler is It kind of stretches out your lips, obviously, and then it kind of gets rid of the definition. So I have a lot of clients who get both done because filler gives you like that physical volume, but then the lip blush gives you the definition and the color. That filler can kind of take away. So yeah, I think Just even people who have had filler for a long time or like who were getting filler and want to stop I think lip blush is going to be really really good Yeah, and I think yeah, it's just going to keep getting more popular I love seeing your posts of all the lip blush and I think it's so beautiful and it's like so satisfying to see that I bet that's so fun to do all day long. Okay, so I don't know if you want to go this route or not We have a few different talking points, community over competition, but I'm also in my head thinking, when we first connected over a year ago, you were really asking me questions about Kajabi, online products, teaching digital education in the digital space, which I think probably comes into the same community over competition than you were just saying when we, before we hit record, that that's still something that you're thinking of. Tell me where you're at with that. I mean, I know you don't want to like speak too soon if something doesn't exist yet. No, it's okay. Where are you at? I'm an open book. I'll talk about whatever. that is a route that I was kind of dabbling in and I still haven't completely Shut it down. I think at this point i'm just trying to be really careful about if I do any sort of like online training Digital products. I just want to make sure it's Something that people are really getting value from and that's why like I love what you do I really appreciate what you do because obviously like I was looking into Joining in this last time and I still am for the next time. but I just think unfortunately Since we talked a lot of online products and trainings are getting a very bad rap now And it's sad because it makes people who are actually putting out good quality products and trainings like it makes it really hard to differentiate what's good and bad. So that's, that sucks. But again, that's another thing that's kind of making me feel like I do want to do it because I want to be, but then there's also the fear because you assume you try to hope that most people are good and then nobody goes in trying to like totally fuck people over. scary when that gets a bad rap. Interesting. So like, what does community over competition mean to you? And you put that in the talking points, like what comes up? What are you? What's your stance on that? So I think a big thing that's helped me grow my business since 2018 is just Getting to know and building connections with so many other people in the industry locally and that includes other permanent makeup artists and cosmetic tattoo artists and I've had a lot of especially like the last year or two a lot of people message me on Instagram about like if I offer Training or anything like that, which as of now I don't but that's a big goal of mine. It's just in Illinois. the regulations for that are very convoluted. So I'm trying to figure out how to do it, but do it the right way. at this time I don't offer certification courses, but anyone who's messaged me and reached out, obviously I can't certify them, but I do kind of guide them in the right direction. I say, this is a really good place to get trained. Go get trained here. And once you get your certification, because unfortunately there's not really anywhere locally. Cause a lot of people who reach out to me are more local. There really isn't anywhere locally for certification training. So they're, you know, a few hours away. Usually I say, go get trained here. And then if you want more like hands on help. We can do like a mentorship or yeah, like a shadowing apprenticeship, honestly, I don't even do that with the goal of them like, working for me, I say if you feel like you want to work here after we get done with that and you start taking clients, that's awesome, but I just always kind of assume they're going to go do their own thing, I would much rather Have someone come to me for just like some hands on help and guidance and go do their own thing correctly and be successful than just have a thousand questions after their training and not feel comfortable because at the end of the day this is people's faces that we're working on. It's important. It's a permanent service. So you it can't really be handled lightly. Yeah. And I see that a lot on social media and a lot of the permanent makeup groups and things that I'm in. Where people will post pictures of like their first, like, client or their first model after their training and it's like, what happened? And it's because they're not getting the help that they need. And then that kind of gives everyone a bad name and then you have all these people out here not wanting to get services even done by you or by anybody because they know someone somewhere had a bad experience. Because yeah, if I would have taken my first training and they just gave me my certification and said, yeah, go take clients. I would not be where I am right now. So how did you build a clientele? Because I feel like I know that you have people come in for touch ups, but I feel like it is different than like a behind the chair business. People, once you have someone they come in every six weeks and you can really learn to like count on that and have the stability of that. How did you go about growing your clientele? I know obviously the model calls in the beginning, but how did you do that? So I, I did my first like, it was around 30 models before I started actually taking clients. And when I started taking clients, I just did like an introductory rate. I still remember. the day that I started posting about that I was taking clients at the salon, which it's called Blush Studio. So when I was accepting clients, I had my square appointments and everything set up. Like I am a legitimate business. Let's go. Uh huh. I still, I think I still have the graphic on my Canva. It said like, you know, taking appointments for this price, message me to book, and I posted it on Facebook and then blush shared it and they had a really awesome loyal clientele. I was at Six Flags that day and I remember I was just getting all these messages of people wanting it done. and it wasn't really, it was a pretty low price. It was like two, I want to say it was like 2. 99 or something for my introductory rate. And I think that day I booked, because I remember I was charging a 100 deposit to book. And I think I had about 10 people book that day. So I remember by the end of the day, I had like 1, 000 in deposits. I was like, oh my god, I'm rich. Like that was the most I've ever had. So it was just so funny. That was like my first chunk of clients. and then what I did with those clients, because like I said, it was an introductory rate. I think when I first started out, my full price, regular price was 4. 75 for a first session microblading. So what really helped me for the first year, I would say. was having a very generous referral program. And I know for a lot of people, it sounds a little scary. And I know a lot of people who work at, tattoo shops or permanent makeup studios on a commission basis. And they unfortunately don't have the flexibility to do what they want to do in terms of promotions and referrals and things like that. so not everyone has this option. And a lot of times when I, when I advise, if these people like ask me, like, what do I do to build my clientele? I'll advise this and they'll be like, oh, my boss isn't going to let me do that. But it's so worth it. And in my opinion, I mean, if you showed to your boss why it would work, I bet maybe they would. So what was your referral program? You said it was really, yeah. So if my client that was in, I would always tell them at the end of their appointment. if they send anyone to me, if anyone books with me, they will get a hundred dollars off at their, like the client who sends someone to me will get a hundred dollars off at their annual touch up for each person they send me. Some people get a free touch up. Exactly. whoever they send to me would also get 100 off at their first session. So that, I think, is what freaks people out more than anything, is like, you know, if I'm getting all these referrals, that's a lot of money that adds up, you know, that's 100 off for each person, but Literally only if you have new clients coming in that are paying more, yeah. Exactly. Do you still offer that? I don't, it's not as generous because, luckily, because of my referral program, I started to get very booked out. And it got to the point where, like, almost everyone that came in was a referral, and I was like, okay, I'm, like, kind of losing too much money at this point, because I entrustees, people would come in whether they were getting 100 off or not. Yeah. Exactly. So I just kind of, like, reeled it in a little bit, and I think I adjusted it at that time to You would still get like my existing clients would still get credit at their touch up But I think it was like fifty dollars off at your annual touch up up to three Referrals and then whoever they sent to me. I still have like a credit for like If they send someone to me, they would get 50 off, so I just, I just reeled it in a little bit. Well, and I would have to imagine too, and I think it's good to go really intense, especially when you're like, fresh on the scene, this is a new service, that many people, reaching out all at once, that was definitely a wise move, but then I think once you build that know, like, and trust, I'm guessing, maybe if you're, Four months booked out and you're like, I can't even get a new client and oh, let me go do so and so for free. Yeah, I'm grateful they sent me all these in, but I'm a little bit resentful because I could have gotten that full paying client in. Exactly. So I think that happens to stylists too. But I also am not against, I mean, I went hard on referrals when I was growing. I went hard on everything. I was so fucking shameless when I was growing my clientele. I was Throwing spaghetti at the wall every single day, seeing what's And that's kind of how I coach. I'm like, there's strategies, there's things that work, but my God, when I was building a clientele, I just woke up every single day and it was like, how can I literally kill something and drag it home? Like, how can I get butts in my business ASAP? and then I think once you build that know, like a trust and then kind of that word of mouth and that experience portfolio, all those things you can, you can reign it back in. And if the 50 is working for you, I think that's great. I know at a certain point and I, there's a lot of people in soul tribe who do this as well. especially once you've raised or you've earned multiple price increases and you're really attracting like a higher, value clientele that doesn't really, value discounts the way that the original people did. a lot of people choose to do gifts as their referral incentive because there's just. a different energy behind a gift than there is behind a discount. so I know a lot of people like to go that route, but I think some people try to do that stuff too soon. And I am all for a shameless, generous balls to the wall while you're growing. Yeah. Especially like, like you were kind of saying with either like doing hair or aesthetic services or more regular Services. you know, obviously, yes, you still need referrals. You still need to be getting new people in, but like with my services, I typically only see my clients for their first session and then six weeks later and that, you know, if they decide, say they were browsed, like maybe they'll come in and get lips at some point, but otherwise at this point, I'm not going to see them again for another like two years until they need their touch up. So I really do, even now, Constantly have to work at continuing to get new clients and because yeah, I don't have those regular like, you know, they're rebooking every six weeks or whatever. so I feel like even now I'm still trying to brainstorm ideas to get new people in, but I really like it. I enjoy it. It's fun. It's kind of a game. I literally just shared inside of the Silas Holtry Mastermind Facebook group. I came up on my recommended YouTube videos this morning. I always watch YouTube while I'm getting ready in the morning. And it literally was called Business is a Video Game, Here's How to Win. And it's so funny because I was literally telling my husband last night as we were driving to my daughter's volleyball. I was like, I feel like I'm leveling up in a video game right now. Like I just feel like I'm really learning like the bottlenecks that I found myself stuck in in my business. Finally, like, ooh, I cracked that code. I figured that out. she talks about how, like, people start out on, like, tutorial island and that's just, like, planning and planning and planning and never executing, wanting to do things perfect. And then eventually you have to, like, Earn these XP points to like get the experience and then you level up and then you have to hit the bosses, which are like bottlenecks in your business. And then once you figure that out, you really get to go to the next level all while taking the best care of your character that you can. And you, you meet the guides along the way that are the mentors. It was such a good video. It randomly popped out probably because my phone was listening to me last night say that, but it was such a good video and I totally relate and I love playing the game of that. Yes. I love the game a lifelong gamer, so I love, I love that analogy. You're gonna love that video, yeah. Yeah. Anytime I like am traveling and I go to a new place, I'm like, wow, I feel like I just unlocked a new area in a video game. I just spawned. So I feel like I would love that video. I will send it to you before this goes live so you don't have to wait. Okay, we also had maintaining work life balance is something to touch on, and I think this probably does go hand in hand. You grew your clientele, you got to a point where you were really busy. Did you have bad work life balance at a point? Because I know for a lot of people that comes before scaling back down. So what does that mean to you? Where do you live with that right now? I, yeah, so I would say it was, it was probably early 2021. Yeah, because I think it was when we were still in the last space. I just, you know, I had spent the previous two years just like absolutely grinding trying to like make a name for myself and build my clientele and build my business. And I'm so glad I did. Like, I don't have any regrets with that at all. But I think for me the biggest problem was just my, and this is one of the really hard things that you don't think is going to be so hard as a business owner, like booth rent or being independent, is figuring out your schedule. So I've messed around with my schedule so many times over the years and I feel like I finally found the perfect schedule. Okay, what's the dream schedule? What is it? So for me currently, I am off Saturday through Monday, as in not taking clients. I do take one half Saturday. a month. in the morning I'll work for three hours because sometimes people literally just can't get in on weekdays. So I'll do that, and then I'm off on Mondays, but I take that as kind of like an admin day usually. I'll go to the coffee shop and just work for like four hours. What's your favorite coffee shop, I have to ask, because you're local. Level Up. I love Level Up. Okay! Riley has been there. I've never been there before. Oh my gosh. I'm always like gagged when people tell me they've never been to Level Up because it's the best. I feel like Their coffee is the best and for working it is hands down like the best. I love working in coffee shops I usually work in Lincoln at guest house when i'm like if I don't have clients for a little bit Like I just either am at home or i'm all the way in Lincoln working at a coffee shop But I love working in a coffee shop. So I will check out level up. Yes. I really look forward to my level up days. A lot of times I'll go with a couple of my friends too, who work in very similar businesses. So I look forward to that. so I'll do that for a few hours on Monday mornings and then Tuesdays now. So this was a change I made recently. Tuesdays I take clients in the afternoon. So I don't go in until like 3 at the earliest and then I'll work until like 7. Yep, to get those evening people. Exactly, because I have some people again who just cannot come in the mornings and have to come in the afternoon, which is fine. But I kind of like doing that on Tuesdays because I still have like, it's still the beginning of my week, I still have the day to get stuff done. And then Wednesday I work 11 to 4. And then Thursday, Friday, I'm only working like 11 to like 2. 45 or something like that. So you have those afternoon evenings to yourself, yeah? Yes, so that's worked out really well for me because yeah, I like Still having time in the day to do other things if I need to get things done because before, like when I first started, so I, I'm a homebody. I love, I love my business. I love what I do, but I also like to be at home and I also like having time to myself to just do whatever. As you should. Yeah, you're a multi dimensional human. Exactly. So when I first started in my head, I was like, okay, I'd rather work longer days and have more days off. So I think I was working like Wednesday. no, I was working Thursday through Saturday or Thursday through Sunday. I was working from like 10 to six all those days. And then I would have three days off That burned me out so bad. and that was also Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is the only days you have off and that's when the rest of the world is working. So typically you're probably missing out on a lot of things, right? Yeah, exactly. And I think the reason why I did that schedule is because I did work in retail for so long. Even when I was at the Brow Bar, I was still a retail employee. And again, when you're first building, there's something to, I believe that in the beauty industry as an independent, any, You know, service provider, you have the ability to work literally any schedule you want. And very few industries have that as well, like very, very, very few. So I think we should take advantage of that. but I do think that you can grow faster if you're willing to do that and then go back into that balance. I hate to say like, pay your dues, but it is almost like, hustle hard so you can have freedom later, or just hustle balanced for longer before you get, like, it's just gonna be a slower track to that end goal than if you were to, you know. I think if I could change anything about how I did my schedule at first, it would just to not work such long days. I would probably still work the same amount of days or even maybe one extra day just to get like those hours in still. Because. With just like the type of work that I do, it's super hyper focused and like, you're really, Oh, I bet your brain hurts. Yeah. Yeah. It's very like meticulous work. And especially when I was first starting out, like I was, you know, I, I had to actively put a lot more, you're a little bit more used to it now that it's more second nature. Yeah, exactly. So just by the end of the day, I was so exhausted mentally, And it did cause me to burn out pretty bad. I think it was the beginning of 2021. And I, I literally was getting like anxiety, like I was having really bad anxiety problems. I think my body was just physically burnt out and anxious and stressed. Yeah. And I ended up taking like A week off of work. I've rescheduled all of my clients because I was having literal panic attacks every day. You have to. It was bad and I was like, okay, I need to like reel it in and figure something out. And I think so many people get used to living like that. Like they've done that for a while and it's like, especially with where we're at. I mean, if you work a corporate job, if you do something different than, okay, but if you have truly the freedom and flexibility, why do you keep fucking doing that to yourself? Stop doing that. If anybody is listening to that, it's like, yeah, I've been feeling that way for, Six months, or a year now, or my god, five years, like, it doesn't have to be that way. Exactly. And I know some people are genuinely just built different and can work super long hours like that, and that's great. Like, I just, came to the realization, I'm like, I'm not that type of person, and that's okay. I need a good balance. And I wasn't, because I was so exhausted by the end of the day, that I wasn't doing anything. For myself, or to take care of myself, or to take care of my home, or anything at the end of the day. And my, my physical health, I think, was kind of like going in the toilet, as well as my mental health. So once I just kind of like took a step back and was like, okay, I just need to like adjust some things. I've, enjoyed my work so much more since then. I just feel so much better mentally and physically. Like, it just, it helped a lot. So yeah, I think at the, like you were saying, it did help, you know, in terms of like, I, I was much more flexible with my schedule when I first started. Like, if people needed to come in at certain times, I would do that. But after I built up my clientele, I kind of got a lot more structured. I set more boundaries with my schedule. even outside of work, having more free time and everything that I have now, I'm taking time to do things that I enjoy doing, and doing things that are good for me, Doing those things helps me with my work and with my business at the end of the day because then I feel better, I show up better for my clients, I'm in a better mood, I'm doing better work, so yeah, it just all works together in the end. And there's so many reasons to that, I have these like core coaching principles that I follow, I call it the cycle of success, but like the meat of it in the middle is schedule, clientele, income, and I think for some, People not in our industry or for example, like my husband, like does construction and the more overtime he works, the more money he makes. And that just is what it is. I mean, no, he's a union iron worker. He really can't even try to get a raise because their journeyman's, you know, rate is what it is. and so I think there's some reconditioning of the mind in our industry because truly I, the way I coached a price increases too. So it's like set your dream schedule, basically decide How big the bucket is, how much drops of water, whatever, cups of water can fit in the bucket. And then from there, once the bucket fills up, which is your schedule. That's when you earn a price increase and that's when we can intentionally remove some water from the bucket so that new, new can come in. And if every single time a new client is reaching out to you, your bucket just gets bigger. You literally never hit that to supply and demand threshold where you earn a price increase. So you're just left work, you know, making the same amount of money. Working way harder where if you, once you get intentional and you really grasp how that works, it's like, duh, why would I do that? And like you said, you do better work. It all starts to work together, the machine then, that it just makes sense. So, yeah. I agree. And that's helped me a lot too is like thinking about like how much I want to make in a month. And then kind of dividing that down. Reverse engineering. Yeah, being like, okay, well, then this is how much I need to make a week. And then in order to make that much a week, I need to take this many people. And like, this is how many hours that I'll work. So doing that instead of just because I know a lot of people in our industry do this. And I did too. When I was first starting out, it was just like, cool, let me see how many people I can get in. And see how much money I can make and then, yeah, you're burnt out at the end of it and it's like, what, what did I even make all this money for? Literally. And you have no, no time to even spend it. I've really enjoyed it. anything else major that you wanted to go over, Sydney? Does that feel pretty good to you? Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty much everything. Like you said, I could talk about this stuff until I'm blue in the face. I literally, I'll be talking to my clients about like various things and I'll be like, I feel like I could just like write a novel at this point. You should. About all of my, I should. About all of my thoughts and everything about just like the industry in general. Yeah. but yeah, I love whenever I get the chance to. Talk to other people about it who understand and they, you know, they know how everything goes. So, yeah. And thanks for being brave and being agreed and come on here. We were just Instagram DMing and she was like, yeah, someone on the podcast. I'm like, girl, I always need people on the podcast. I'm pumping out an episode a week. I hate talking to myself. So I love having people on. We'll have to meet at level up soon and do. Yes, I would love that. Well, I will put all of Sydney's information in the show notes, mostly her, Instagram. She's very active, posts on there a lot, is on her stories all the time. I'll put her website as well. if anyone is listening to this and it inspired you in any way, if you're kind of in the, permanent makeup realm and want a new friend to reach out to, she's a real person, she'll respond to her DMs. Feel free to do that. If you're ever interested in, getting into permanent makeup or have any questions about it at all, because I know it's, like, Kind of a daunting thing if you're new to it, like, please message me anytime. I'm happy to give you any sort of, advice. Amazing. Cool. Alright, well, everything will be in the show notes. Thank you again, Sydney, for being on, and thank you everybody for listening. I will talk to you all next week. Bye!