From Behind the Chair to Behind the Lens: How Hair Photography Can Elevate Your Brand & Attract Dream Clients

Welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations! Today, I’m joined by Shannon DeMont, a hairstylist-turned-professional photographer and the creator of the Hair Photography Academy. Shannon is on a mission to help hairstylists capture their work in the best possible light—literally! She shares how high-quality photos and videos can attract dream clients, build a standout brand, and create new business opportunities.

In this episode, Shannon opens up about her journey from stylist to educator, her decision to step away from behind the chair, and how she balances business and homeschooling four boys. She also breaks down key photography tips for hairstylists looking to level up their marketing and attract more clients through strong visuals.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✨ How Shannon transitioned from hairstyling to photography and education
✨ The power of hair photography in branding and business growth
✨ Overcoming doubt, fear, and external judgment when making a big career move
✨ How one small action every day (daily needle movers) creates massive business momentum
✨ Practical photography tips for hairstylists, including lighting, posing, and editing
✨ The importance of community and mentorship in the beauty industry
✨ How Shannon built a 35,000+ member Facebook group for hairstylists interested in photography

Resources & Links:

📸 Join Shannon’s Free Facebook Group: Hair Photography
📸 Learn more about the Hair Photography Academy: Website link
📸 Follow Shannon on Instagram: @ShannonDeMont

💡 If you loved this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast! Your support helps us continue bringing inspiring conversations to hairstylists and beauty entrepreneurs like you.

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Transcript

Audio Only - All Participants-1: 0:05

Hello, friends. Welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I am joined today by Shannon DeMont. Shannon is a hairstylist and professional photographer on a mission to empower hairstylists to attract their dream clients and brands through taking incredible photos and videos. She's a homeschooling mom of four boys and the creator of the Hair Photography Academy. Hello, Shannon. I feel like this has been a long time coming. Hello. I'm so excited to be here and thank you for that introduction. Yes. Life is wild. It's good. Yeah. So for homeschooling for boys, how old are they? What is that life situation like? Cause I can't even imagine. So my oldest right now is nine, seven, four, and then almost two. Are you tired? I am pretty tired. we started homeschooling during COVID because it was such a crazy time. Like I didn't want my son to be joining kindergarten on a tablet for eight hours a day at home. It just sounded crazy. So I was like, you know what, we're just going to try it and we're going to see how it goes. I never imagined trying it, but everybody kind of around me was doing it. And I have loved it. And I have to say, it's been a really great balance with working because they, like we read together in the morning, we talk about like a topic. So right now, for example, talking about South America. We learn about South America, we learn about a specific country and place, and then they break off and do their own age appropriate work. Amazing. While they're doing that, I set up my tablet. It's like accountability for you, too. Yeah. You're like, this is co working time. Yes, exactly. And that's when I get a lot of my business stuff done. So it's been great. You know, my youngest is nine, so I have a 12 year old girl. And then Benny is nine, my boy. And he was in preschool, too, when everything was happening with COVID. And I remember, like, My husband and I being concerned when, especially that cloth mask era, because it started with like the paper masks and then we were trying to be eco friendly. There was the cloth mask and it was hard to find some for their little faces. I remember Ryan and I being worried that Bennett's ears were going to be permanently pulled forward from his mask because it was, that was a moment in time and I look back on those. preschool graduation videos and pictures and oh my god, what a weird moment in time. It's crazy that we're like, oh, what going on six years since that? It's just wild. So that's, I think a lot of people did. I wasn't as strong as you where I even thought I could take that on. We just totally did e learning and then went back to it. But I do think a lot of people probably homeschooled them, So do you think, Through graduation, like high school graduation, you're going to do this or do you have any plan for how we just go year by year? Yeah, yeah, I will fill it out to them. Yeah, as it's working as it makes sense. I have a couple clients at homeschool their kids and they love it. So that is absolutely amazing. I love it. Okay. So I have known Shannon not super well, but kinda well. I have all these internet friends, right? I feel like I know you, but even better than some other people in kind of the Thriversphere. But I feel like you've been in my world for many years now, which is wild with how long, you know, social media has been around. we haven't super duper connected, just the two of us. so I don't know your whole story, but I do vividly remember seeing, you know, the timeline better. But when you announced that you were fully stepping away from behind the chair and going into education, I remember seeing that and being like, hell yeah, good for her. So I guess, will you tell your story a little bit? What brought you to the industry, whatever feels appropriate into this niche of education, making that final decision to step away from behind the chair, kind of where you are today. And then I'll interrupt you 17, 000 times and we'll just jam. Okay. Sounds great. So I joined the industry. I went to high school for cosmetology. So I learned how to do cosmetology in high school. I graduated with a license. Actually, this is a crazy part of my story. My senior year of high school, I had a bout of being homeless. So I actually lived out of a truck. my parents had gotten a divorce and lost the house. my mom had to care for my little siblings and I was 18, so I was like, alright, well, How old are you right now, Shannon? I am 31. Okay, I'm 32. We've lived kind of parallels. About when I was that age too, my childhood home was foreclosed about that same time. I was never living in a car. Keep going. Wow. It was a rough time. I can't even imagine. But I think having cosmetology, I was like, all right, well, you know, I can either live out of a car for the rest of my life or I can like, figure this out. So I, went for an interview. I had to borrow somebody else's shoes for my interview. And, I got the job on the spot and I started working. And I think it's funny when you graduate school, you think, you know, everything, right? So I was like, I'm going to, Oh my God, you really think, you know, everything you're like, I don't need to assist. I could do anything right now. Yeah. I'm going to nail it. I'm going to do the audacity. I know. And I just remember getting My butt kicks, really. And, but it was so good for me. I remember at the time hating it, but now that I look back and I'm like, I am so thankful that I had to go through all of that because while I'm living out of a car, while I'm getting gift cards from my, I don't even know what she was, she was like the school counselor to get, go get food and stuff, you know, I'm like, wow, I worked and I made enough money. I started out literally making, I think my first paycheck for the whole year was 16 grand. Like, I did not make much and slowly just worked my way up. So, I decided to go to massage therapy school. So, I became a massage therapist. What year was that? That was 2014. So, did you graduate in 2010 or 11? 2012. 2012. Okay. So, I was 2011. Wait, you said you're 31, one year younger. I suck. Okay. Got it. That's okay. Got it. so, I, I graduated in 2014. Okay. And I don't know, like, I look back on it and I'm like, I have no idea how I did it, but I literally worked all day. And then at night I would drive two hours to Boston. I would take a course from seven to 11 for massage therapy, go to sleep and do it all over again. I knew it was worth it. I thought learning about the human body was the most fascinating thing to me. and it just complimented doing hair so well. So I would go back and forth. I would take clients doing hair. I would go into the massage room. I'd come back out. it was great. Loved it. I got pregnant with my son. And I, at that point, wanted to take pictures of him. So I started learning about newborn photography. I would, shadow photographers. I kept booking all these sessions for him. I'm like, alright, how many sessions can I have for you? I can't even imagine how much money you were spending, too. I remember this. And that was definitely the era, like, when we had babies at that time, like, you were getting professional photo shoots every five minutes. Yep. people would be like, Oh, I need like a newborn model. And I'd be like, it's me. I'm like, we'll be there. So we did a lot of that. And I was like, you know, I really want to take pictures. So I researched cameras for a while. My husband was super excited about it. He thought it was the coolest thing. So he was researching cameras. So I ended up buying my first camera and just going full force. Like I'm going to do hair. I'm going to do massage and I'm going to assistant weddings and go to photo shoots. And it was wild. But that's such like a, as you're, I mean, that age too, it's almost like your prefrontal cortex is developing and you just want to taste everything. I feel like that during that age too, I was like, let me try a little bit of this, a little bit of this, a little bit of this, until something kind of sticks. Yeah, and I just was so curious about learning. I just wanted to keep learning. Yeah. I learned a lot about photography in that time. Then, when, I remember, like, sitting at the computer and looking at Facebook. And I remember thinking, like, everybody just posts words. Like, there wasn't really pictures, but every once in a while, there would be a picture. And when I would scroll by that picture, it would catch my attention way more than the words. So I was like, you know, I'm going to start taking pictures of my clients. I'm going to bring my camera in with it and see if I can get good hair pictures. And I would bring my camera in. And I remember the girls I worked with at the time were not supportive of it. They were like, what are you doing? Like, you are crazy. I remember having a client posing and having girls walk by being like, This is the most awkward thing you've ever done. Like, you need to stop doing that. You're putting your clients out, and my client was kind of like, okay. And hearing that now is so wild. Because can you imagine, like, a service provider now not taking pictures of their work? But I mean, social media was so early back then. There really was a point I was working at Smart Style inside of Walmart when I started taking hair photos. And I remember I would, because I didn't want it to look like I was working at Smart Style inside of inside of Walmart with like the blue and red border around the walls, I would take them outside against the brick wall. And I remember the girls then to being like, where are you going? What are you doing? And, yeah, it was definitely an isolating feeling. But look at all the people now that started kind of doing that and adopting that. So keep going. So I just noticed that every time I would post a picture, it would catch people's attention. And all of a sudden, like everybody on my Facebook was like, Oh, she's the hair girl. So everybody was booking appointments with me. If they were getting married, they were calling me. And I, I did that for a while. And I remember I was like, you know, I want to teach and I wanted to teach up to use. So I, I did a lot of weddings and a lot of stylists locally were like, Oh, I want to learn how to do up to. So I was like, Oh, I'll teach an up to class. When I did the up to class. I did a little segment of photography at the end and that was everybody's favorite part and that was my favorite part too. And so I remember putting it out there like, hey, would anybody be interested in just doing a photography class? And there was, it went wild. Like so many people were like, yes, please. Alignment. So I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to do photography classes. So my first, like, three, I think, sold out. Amazing. Yeah, it was pretty wild. And, um, So now, wait a second, those girls that were like, Oh my God, this is the most awkward thing. Were they on board by that point? Or they were still skeptical? Oh, no, they never were on board. Yeah. Okay. So you are now speaking to other local stylists? Or are you traveling for those few classes? Okay. Yeah. And yeah, they, I have no idea what they're doing. I don't think they really became passionate about taking up, but like, it's just funny now how like things full circled around. Totally. But I think in myself too, I like knew deep down, like, this is what I wanted to do and this is what I enjoyed. So why would I listen to people telling me not to, you know? yeah. So I started teaching photography classes and ever since then there was like a little bit where I was like, maybe I'll teach you everything. I think I have a unique point of view where being a photographer and a hairstylist, you see things differently than just a hairstylist would or just a photographer would, so. So when did that go from these in person classes to now this actual online course that you have? Oh, goodness. Well, this online course I started in the fall of 20, 24. Was that similar timing to when you left behind the chair, or how did that all play out? Kind of. So I started really creating digital education in 2020. But what happened was I had a big launch, it went really well, and COVID happened. So all of a sudden it was nobody's priority anymore. They weren't in the salon to take pictures and they didn't care. They wanted to figure out how they could get a paycheck. Yeah. So I was like, all right, you know what? We're gonna live this life. Yeah, I'm gonna grow things. I'm going to plant seeds, like in the Facebook group, start growing that. I'm going to start growing an email list. I'm going to start doing all these things. So that way when I am ready and when they are ready, I will be able to prepare. So 2023, I had another baby. And. Are you going to have any more babies, or are you done? I have no idea, Lisa. Who knows? Okay, there may be more babies. You know what, right now I'm good, but also I love babies, so. You never know what could happen. Who knows? And I'm only 31. I got plenty of time. We'll see what happens. 2023, I had my next baby. They're all boys, too, which is wild. And I remember going back to work after maternity leave, and something didn't feel right. And the year before that, people had been telling me it's time to step back. I really suggest you start stepping back because I was starting to get overwhelmed with like, all right, how do I work behind the chair three days a week and take care of my family and grow this online business and travel to teach classes. So I had him in July. I think I went back in September, October. I feel like also I have hit my growing point in the salon. Like I have hit the goals that I wanted to hit. I made six figures this year time. I took a maternity leave and I feel very confident in what I'm giving my guests and I just feel like it's time for me to do something else. Yeah. it's not as stimulating as it once was cause there's no vision ahead on the horizon. Right. And like I said, I love to learn. So if I'm spending three days a week where I'm not learning, I'm like, okay, it's time to change. So I had a lot of conversations with people that I trust with my husband and I said, you know what? I need to be done by February. So February of last year, I think it was actually December, I sent an email out to my clients letting them know. And I said, all right, I'm taking a step back. So there was definitely a lot of people that were sad, but there were so many that were so supportive. So the moment you sent that email, was it like major release, relief and expansion? Or was it like so terrified the moment you sent that email? Both. Both. I had a sense of feeling so relieved and because there's obviously that scarcity to have like, Oh, what if I need to go back to these people? Like, how do I maintain that? I still haven't stepped away from behind the chair, but I still love being behind the chair. So that's where it's different. Yeah, right. If I loved it, I would still do it. But totally, I think the thing too, is that like, Yeah, I knew it was time and I was also terrified because I didn't have, I didn't know what my plan was. I was like, all right, I know I'm going to launch digital education. I have no idea if I'm going to make money. I have no idea if people are going to want this next year. No idea. Yeah. But, I spent a lot of time in meditation and prayer and in, in just making sure this was it and talking to my husband and I was like, you know what, this is the move I need to make. So come February I left and I, I thought what was going to happen was I thought I would leave in February and immediately put out a course. For sure. Yeah. But Because we always think that, oh, time is what's getting in our way. Like, if I just get rid of these things that are taking up my time, then instantly everything I think I can have. But I think I've been in that situation, too, where that's not quite how it always works out. There's usually some other roadblocks, not just time, that's standing between you and that. Yeah. Well, I realize that since I've been working for 12 years, there was a lot that I hadn't dealt with. There was a lot that I had been suppressing and there was a lot that I like had been personal work you're talking about. Yeah, yep. So when I left behind the chair, All of a sudden all of these things were coming to me and I was like, Oh crap, I have to deal with it out some space. Yeah, I have presented themselves. Yeah. So I still, we still, I took my family with me to teach classes. So in June we went to, Syracuse, taught a hair class in September. We went to New Jersey, taught a few hair classes and I took them with me, which was awesome. Do you guys just make vacations out of it? And then the kids are homeschooled. So why the heck not? Yeah. When we went to Syracuse, we like went to Niagara Falls and they got to learn all about that. I'm like You learn so much when you get to visit places. So why not? So that was really awesome. So we still did a lot of things. I still had a lot of progress, but it really was the fall that I was like, all right, I'm ready to dive in again and I'm feeling much better and I'm feeling much more centered and much more healed after dealing with all of these things. So what a cool moment in time then for us to get to connect. Cause obviously I launched the podcast a little over a year ago. you've been on the list since the moment I created it, but it makes sense now why it has waited. if you don't feel comfortable going into some of the personal stuff, we absolutely don't have to, especially if it's still too fresh, but if you are comfortable with it, do you want to share some of those things that came up when it? There was nothing else distracting you and taking your time? Yeah, I'm okay with talking about that. Okay. so, There was a lot that came up, but Yeah. I would say, I've always been a person that has to stay busy. And I never knew why. And people would always point that out to me. Like, why do you always have to stay busy? And I'm like, well, I love learning, which I do, but I realized it was because I was pushing off the things that I needed to deal with, so a lot of it had to do with when my parents did divorce. there was a lot of hurt, there was a lot of healing that needed to happen, and also I was young, I didn't understand how to fully process it. Yeah, that shit sticks in an 18 year old body as you continue to grow, yeah. motherhood trauma. So when I say motherhood trauma, COVID was a rough time to have a baby. I mean, it was a rough time for everybody, but to have a baby, I felt like I was getting swung at left and right. it was like, it was hard enough to deal with COVID, never mind being pregnant, having to wear a mask and a face shield while you're pregnant, running up and down stairs, doing massage, like, it really was such a crazy time. Oh my god. Like, I think we all just kind of almost forgot about how crazy it was. It was wild. And then I got the opportunity to go to a new salon, and I did. And through that, I lost a lot of friends. I lost a huge amount of friends, and I felt like they were my support system. So that was a big struggle. And I also received a lot of judgment. And the hard part about that was The judgment was from people who were not moms. So they had no idea what I was going through and what I was dealing with. So when I was 36 weeks pregnant, I switched out of the hospital to a birth center because the hospital was at that moment saying, we're going to have the worst winter. I had him in December of 2020. We're going to have the worst winter. Your husband might not be able to be here. Oh my God. If your baby, or if you test positive for COVID, we're going to separate you and your baby. Oh my God. You have to lay in the bed while you're in labor and wear a mask. Like you can't walk around. And I was like, Heck no. Like, what is going on? I would rather have a car baby than do that. So I one morning woke up and I was like, I can't do this. Like, I literally cannot give birth in this hospital. And so I said to my husband, do you think I'm crazy if I want to switch to a birth center? And he was like, No, if that's what you feel comfortable with do it. Yeah, so I went and interviewed them and I felt so comfortable So relaxed so peaceful about it. I switched had my baby it was the most beautiful birth and I feel like it healed me from my first two births which were Hospital births and didn't go the best I wasn't even sure if I was gonna have a third So the fact that I had this beautiful experience, I just realized How much healing had happened during then, how much I had to process, And the first time I learned to advocate for myself, the third time I should say, the third time I learned to advocate for myself and the pre, the last time I really had. Just another beautiful experience. So yeah, I felt like when I left, I had to process the friends that I didn't have. And I also think that was so needed. What I recognized was how much I was leaning on these people. when I needed to make a decision, I would ask all of them first. Code dependency. Yeah. I just couldn't trust myself. So when these friends had left me, I was devastated. And I was like, why is this happening in my support system? And these people that were in my wedding and had been with me through all of these things that I've gone through, like, What do I do now? But I really leaned into trusting myself and also recognizing that new people are coming into my life. And also these new people coming into my life are so much more aligned. Like we're on the same page with things and we can have better conversations and my lack mindset. Is so much better. You know? That healing journey, what did that consist of for you? Was that therapy? Was that energetic stuff? Was that faith stuff? What was that? Oh my gosh, so much. That's a really good question too. I would say a lot of quiet time. Okay. which I've never really had because I was working with children. So I still have children, but. I was dedicating space and time. I call that white space. Oh, I needed it. It's medicine. And there was just so much that came to me in that period of time. So I would say quiet time, meditation, definitely prayer. and therapy too. I think everybody needs therapy, but that has been hugely helpful and taking care of myself. So I get regular massages. I was doing like pelvic floor. Like there was a lot of things that I was doing to Bring myself back up to speed. So what I'm hearing you say, obviously I love the specifics of what other people can test and try, but a lot of it was just intentionality. Like, you were just like, you noticed it, there was nothing else to lean on, to distract, to use it as an excuse, this is why I can't face this now. You just noticed, like, okay, it is time for me to deal with this, and then set the intention of like, I'm gonna get really clear on like, working through these things as they come up. And then you said around fall, you were like, okay, I'm really ready to do that. So what is, the hair photography academy? What's inside of it? Tell me everything. Okay. So the hair photography academy is an A to Z transformation. It takes stylists who are not confident and like feel awkward around their clients and don't know what to do. And maybe a bad lighting. And it teaches them all of the things they need to know. So lighting, posing, things that you don't know that you need to know, but that you really need to know about what people need to wear, like all these things, editing, and it creates a complete transformation in them. So that way, by the end of it, They know what to do, they know what lighting to use at night, they know exactly where to position their clients, what angles to take things from, and they feel a lot more confident and actually have a good time taking pictures. And so, I mean, if anyone who's feeling like, and what that turns into is social media marketing, website photos. word of mouth from, documenting your work in the best light that you possibly can. that's amazing. I love that so much. So how long would you say it takes someone to go through the entire academy? I like to give people six months. Okay. And we have a lot, it's beefy. Yeah, it's beefy. And I do think it takes time to practice this muscle memory and, again, seeing the transformation in yourself, you know, I could give you all the tips, but if you don't actually take the time to thoroughly practice it, then you're not going to learn anything. So I like to make it step by step. And then in between each, we actually have coaching calls where we all get together and we, we troubleshoot. Somebody is like, you taught me this, but I'm still struggling with it. Then we walk through it. and then you, we talked about this before I hit record. I was kind of asking where you wanted to send people and you mentioned the Facebook group. Another thing that I think I've felt drawn to you over the years are like a little spot that we connected on. And I noticed you put it on your Instagram story just the other day that you made a commitment to do one teeny tiny thing every day that makes a difference. And I was thinking back to when you were saying you were in this in between phase. But during that, while you were very much not work focused, you were doing these tiny little things, planting these teeny tiny seeds that now we can talk about this Facebook group that you have. Because as soon as you said, I was like, yeah, there's like a lot of people in there, isn't there? And you're like, yeah, like 35, 000 people, which is bonkers. But I have always had that same mentality and I call them needle movers. But if I can do even one thing today. That even just microscopically moves the needle forward. If I can do that every single day of my life, and I've probably been doing it honestly for the last maybe 9 years, 10 years, I know the compounding effect of that, is going to pay off in the long run. Some days, some days it's not a needle mover, it's like a massive shift, but a lot of the days it's just a microscopic thing. So if you have anything else you want to chat about that, please feel free to chime in on your thought process on that, but then also tell us about the Facebook group. Previously to this year of me not working behind the chair. I think that I would just like sit down for a weekend and bang it all out and get everything done that I needed to get done. So being home, you know, I spend all day like homeschooling my kids, taking care of my kids, doing this, doing that, and by the end of the day, I'm exhausted. But My husband works nights, so that's when I get stuff done. And, so I made the decision this year, and it was so hard, but like, Every night, I don't care what it is, I don't care how exhausted I am, I'm going to at least try to get one thing done. So give me some examples of bigger things, littler things, middle ground things, what are you making yourself do before bedtime? So, I think it depends on what my responsibilities are that night. You know, right now I'm working on modules. So like, if I have a deadline, okay, my deadline is Monday. Then I need to get a lot done tonight. So I will make myself do that, but I will spread it out too. Like, okay, tonight I have to get this much done tomorrow. And I'd have to get this much done the next night. I have to get this, this much done. But when I'm not in the middle of course creation, it would be simple things like just responding to people. Sending out messages that need to go out, answering emails, like, one little thing that I could make sure I got done. Right, so, tomorrow, maybe I need to post this, or tomorrow maybe I need to do this, so, like, let me make sure it's all ready to go, that way tomorrow I can focus on something else. So what is this Facebook group? I'll obviously have it in the show notes, but like, tell us what it used to be, what it is now, and, what people will get out of joining it. Yeah. So the Facebook group, I really, I really love community. I really wanted to create a community. So I started the Facebook group and it just kind of really took off. basically we share tips. Every day in there about ways to photograph different poses. we do constructive criticism. So we have a post where everybody can post like their hair pictures and we can say like, Hey, maybe I would change this super positive. Which I really would love to keep it that way, and I think it's amazing. It's impressive after the 35, 000 people, you'd be able to still keep it that way, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I have to say, I've been doing all my own up until this month. I actually just hired two new admins, so I'm very excited about that. There's been a lot of people that have gotten together and collaborated on hair photography things, to be able to connect. So I think that it's a really great place to start. So if you're curious about hair photography and you are not sure where to start, that's a good place to start. I feel like a lot of people's typical questions is a camera camera. Is it phone photography? Is it both? What do people need to know before they go to the website and consider investing in this? They would include everything or is it mostly camera focused? Is it mostly phone focused? What is it? Oh, everything. Yeah, so I do teach people how to use a camera, but I also will say it's not 100 percent necessary if you don't need it to be. Yeah, so it's going to depend on the person and their goals. So we talked about the goals that you might get. Or that you might hit with a camera and the goals that you might hit with an iPhone. Amazing. Cool. Love it. All right. Well, I will put all of the information in the show notes and that's available anytime, right? You don't do like an open close on that or when can people? Open anytime. Yep. Okay. So we will put that all linked in the show notes so that if you want to get your Hands on that. The Facebook group is free, so why would you not join that? That's a great place to start. it's called hair photography. It will be linked in the show notes too, though. Thank you. And in the description on YouTube. So wherever you're listening to this, you should be able to get it. But it's called hair photography. That's all you have to search and you'll find it. Amazing. Anything else you wanna kind of share or anything else you feel called to mention or does that feel pretty good to you? No, it feels pretty good. It feels great to me. Thank you so much, Shannon. Like I said, I think this was a long time coming. I have loved using this podcast as just a reason and excuse to carve out time to sit down and have more in depth conversations than just to respond to a DM here, like a post here, comment on it here. So it's so good to sit down and get to talk to you in real time. And hopefully we get to do more of that in the future. That sounds great. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Like I said, everything that we talked about will be in the show notes, and I will talk to you all next week. Bye. Bye.