052 - Mindi & Leslie of The Banyan Effect: Ignorance on Fire and Not Wasting the Struggle

Welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations! In this episode, I’m thrilled to host Mindi and Leslie, co-hosts of The Banyan Effect podcast, where they dive into topics like cultivating resilience, discovering purpose, and leading with authenticity. These inspiring women bring a fresh take on overcoming life’s challenges, blending wisdom with humor and relatability.

We explore some incredible concepts, including “Ignorance on Fire,” a mantra for embracing imperfect action and taking bold, uncharted steps to pursue our dreams. Mindi and Leslie remind us that growth doesn’t require knowing everything beforehand; sometimes, it’s about moving forward with faith and figuring it out along the way.

Key topics we cover include:

• Ignorance on Fire – Taking action before we feel "ready" and how this mindset fuels personal and professional growth.
• Not Wasting the Struggle – How life’s toughest moments can become our greatest strengths, guiding us toward purpose and connecting us with others.
• Staying Curious – The power of curiosity to keep us present, grounded, and on a path of self-discovery.
• The Banyan Effect – How Mindi and Leslie found meaning and friendship through life’s challenges, symbolized by the banyan tree's strong, interconnected roots.
• Authentic Adult Friendships – Navigating adult friendships with intention, vulnerability, and shared values.

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone looking to embrace passion projects, strengthen relationships, and find purpose through resilience and real connection. Tune in for a conversation filled with laughter, deep truths, and practical wisdom for living boldly and authentically.

Links Mentioned:

• The Banyan Effect podcast by Mindi and Leslie: http://thebanyaneffectpodcast.com/

We’re celebrating one year of Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations! 🎉 To mark this milestone, we’ve created six exclusive Starter Packs packed with powerful episodes, masterclasses, roundtables, and content from the Stylist Soul Tribe Vault. Click here: https://stylistsoultribe.mykajabi.co

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Transcript

1:09

Welcome to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff. Over the last five years, I've coached hundreds of hairstylists and beauty industry professionals, helping them work their dream schedules exclusively with their dream clientele and earn their dream income. income, all while fostering genuine connections and lifelong friendships inside the beauty industry. And this podcast, we dive deep into abundance, manifestation, business building strategies, and creating a life that you are truly proud of both behind the chair and at home. Are you ready to embark on a journey of personal growth, success, and sisterhood, then hit that subscribe button now and get ready to experience the pure magic of Silas Old Tribe Conversations.

Audio Only - All Participants: 1:55

Hi friends, welcome back to Stylistle Tribe Conversations. Today I am joined, by Two Connections, Mindy and Leslie, friends who co host the Banyan Effect podcast, which explores topics such as not settling, discovering your purpose, cultivating a resilient mindset, leadership, and using life's challenges as stepping stones for growth, which is obviously right up my alley. Hello ladies, thank you so much for being here today. Hi. Thanks for having us. You're so welcome. Um, so I got connected originally with Mindy through a mutual connection that we both have. Carissa Warren, she has been on the podcast before. Um, does she do your hair, Mindy, or how do you guys know each other? Well, we actually know each other from Mutual friends through high school. She's a little bit older than I. we didn't graduate together, but, That's how I know her. I'm not technically one of her clients, although I do pop in sometimes for some insight and some help. I love the toppers. So I went in and had her do a topper consultation and amazing. And her and I, I think just have. similar business mindset. And so she felt like we should connect as well because of the podcast. Yes. Krista told me that she had a friend who was a real estate agent, had this podcast, and wanted to ask some questions. What course did I take? What, kind of like, Things like that have I done to, bring my podcast to life. So Mindy and I hopped on a call about a month ago. I don't know either of these ladies very well at all. But when we were chatting about her podcast, their friendship, the topics they discuss on their podcasts, I was like, why don't you guys just come on my podcast and let's have a conversation. Like I've listened into a few of their episodes, just get an idea of what, they're talking about. And then, like I said, when I introduced them, the topics are very, relevant. So why don't we, I think you guys have an Interesting, surprising little duo, the connection that you guys have and the friendship that you guys have formed. So why don't you, one, so that people can learn voices, maybe Leslie, let's start with you since we've already chatted with Mindy a little bit, introduce who you are, a little bit of background, and then maybe share the friendship with Mindy and how this podcast came to life. Yeah, sure. well, I'm Leslie. I, am in marketing, actually. So my full time job is in marketing. I'm a senior level marketing executive, so I have a team underneath me. and so I spend a lot of time doing that. I live in the Madison, Wisconsin area, which is where Mindy and I met. Mindy and I actually met through our daughters. they both, Did competitive cheer together. And we've actually, we haven't known each other that long though. you wouldn't think that when our families are together, cause it seems like we've known each other forever. So we met through our daughters and cheer. And you know, when Mindy and I started talking about business and life and. Just who we are as people. We started to realize that there's a lot of alignment between the way that we think and the way that we just tackle life. So it was very, very natural for us to be, fast friends and, you know, our families since then have become completely integrated together. we actually. Recently built houses next to each other out in the country. So, we shared Our families I consider her kids extension of. my kids and vice versa. So it's wonderful. Love. And then Mindy, a little intro of who you are, what you do by trade. And then same thing, maybe when the idea of the podcast came to light. Yeah, by trade, I'm a real estate agent. and so I'm also a marketer because you kind of have to be in that business. And I have my own business. I also have a team that I run. And so, I love the idea of growing. when Leslie and I started, you know, just having these really real raw conversations, we just felt like we shouldn't, they shouldn't be kept between us. Like these were conversations that we feel like it would benefit many women and men. we've got. male listeners that are some of our most loyal, but, just other people that like just very raw topics and real life, like as we're going through them type of things that we just want to share with the world and try to help other people go through and just feel like, and know that they're normal for having these issues. And so, that's kind of, I think when we started having these conversations, we were just like, this is really good stuff. we're both driven, we're both Enneagram threes, we love to achieve, and so there, it was birthed this idea of a podcast and a book and all of these ideas were birthed and then real life kind of gets in the way with that, but it's, you know, that's kind of how it started and what we're kind of fighting for right now is we're still working full time, very full time jobs. Yeah. And so how long ago was the podcast originally started? We started at the beginning of January, so it's been going just under a year. Just under a year. Yep. Awesome. Nine months. Yeah. and then the Banyan Effect. Obviously, I've heard your guys intro, so I know where that came from, but how did you guys come up with that name and what does that mean to you? It was actually, we had been, so Mindy and I back, was it February probably? Took, just a last minute down to Florida. You know, the winters here in Wisconsin are brutal and there's no sun and no motivation. So trying to start a podcast and dream really big when it's gloomy and dark out was hard. So we were like, let's just get out of here. Let's go down to Florida. Let's fly to Florida for an extended weekend. And just let's think about this thing. and, Well, the name actually, we came up with a name last November. Okay. So before the podcast. Yeah. We locked ourselves in a cabin in Oxford, an hour north for a weekend and we birthed an entire business plan in one weekend. And one thing that we said we couldn't do before, or one thing we had to do before we left was come up with a name because it's really hard to progress with anything without a name. And so. Yeah. You want to share? Yeah. So that trip down to Florida was, we were, we went out for a walk and there was one of the, the largest Banyan tree in the continental United States is down in Fort Myers, Florida. And so we took a walk 1 morning through that tree and it's, it's enormous. And as we were walking through it, I think it really like. validated that name that we had come up with back in November because you could see all of the different roots of the banyan tree and they're all supporting one another and they all sort of go back to the central place of the core root but it there's all of these other strong roots that help grow the banyan tree to get bigger and wider and so we're like that's it's so perfect of like in order for us to live our purpose. There's all of these different roots in our lives that we have to nourish and grow strong in order to grow as wide as we can and take up all of the space that we're created to which is in the intro of our podcast. It really is the perfect like metaphor for these conversations you guys found yourself having and it sounds like just the basis of your friendship. So going back to Chris, and it's so interesting when people are like, Hey, I think you should connect with this person. It's so random. They're not a hairstylist. They're not anybody, but it's just, there's a type of person. And you just kind of know when you find them clearly, you guys have that. I am honored when people will say, I'd love to introduce you to this person. I just know you would click with them. Um, there's just a type of mindset. There and that is a huge compliment hearing that and you really know him when you see him and then once you find them, it's just that feeling and that connection. So I'm so grateful to have you guys on to get to know both of you a little bit more just for the listeners. A little context. I was just kind of chatting with Mindy a month ago. she was just asking some questions about monetizing a podcast. When do you finally do that? I'm still looking for that secret, you know, mystery to solve because, from my perspective, my podcast leads into my main thing, which is Stylus Old Tribe, and it's more of a marketing tactic into that. But you, what you just said, Mindy, when you were introducing yourself about what you guys are fighting to, you know, hold on to because life is so busy. I think it's probably fair to just call a passion project a passion project sometimes, right? And isn't that even what you guys are talking about? And like, sometimes even what you were just saying before we hit record, Leslie, of like, You start to lose the magic of something really, really special when you get all these deadlines and guidelines and all these boxes that you get pushed into. and so I think that's a beautiful thing. And I hope you guys obviously continue to do that. I mean, fair to say that you can just call it a passion project for a little bit, and that's a beautiful thing and serves its own purpose, right? We're trying really hard to allow ourselves to do that. So I think like Mindy shared, we are both Enneagrams, Enneagram threes and want to achieve and so want to turn it into this big thing. So I think it's a good testament to the message that we're sharing on our podcast, too, like it's okay to relinquish control sometimes and just, like you said, pour your passion into it and see where it goes without these crazy expectations. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if the podcast is actually for us and not for our listeners and it's The lessons that it's teaching us about Again, like not having everything in our life be attached to an award or a paycheck or, you know what I mean? Like, being okay with just putting something out in the world because it's good and it's real and it doesn't necessarily provide anything in return other than just helping other people organically. And that's, I think, the lesson that we're currently learning, like, okay, we need to release the reins. Or even truly just helping yourself, but having the bravery to just document it and throw it out there. And if it ever finds someone that it's supposed to find, there's nothing wrong with that. I've been reading a book right now called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Have either of you ever heard of that? No. It's like a 12 week kind of like course journal prompt. It's an incredible book. I'm on week 12 right now, so I'm on the tail end of it. and it really, I've been really into just like the thought of creativity, and it's like a spiritual book too, and it basically says that like, You are a creation from whatever you believe, God, whatever creator you think. But like, living is the ultimate creation. And like, creativity is your birthright. And it is like, your job. Like, that's what God put you here to. You are a creation. Your job is to continue to create. And similar to what you guys are talking about, that trip that you took where it was just like, all of a sudden you have this giant. Business plan. I always, refer to it as like a USB port just got plugged into my brain. And, Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a book called big magic. And that's a big, like, part of my story. I was reading that book and I got the idea of stylus soul tribe and I knew it was a big magic idea and her, the way she. talks about these big magic ideas is basically ideas are energy and they kind of float around the ether. And, when they find a host, it's that host's job to bring them to life. And if the host doesn't bring it to life, then it will eventually float and find a new host. and it was the same thing. It wasn't like I had to force it. I didn't have to really like think about what is this going to be? It just dropped in. Not just like the name, the everything, like everything that I was going to create kind of dropped in. but I'm the same as you, Mindy, and this is what we were talking about. The words that I use when I get a big magic idea and when I coach other people to a big magic idea, and I think this is what we were talking about a month ago, is I always say, then you need to take fast, messy action. And I said that on a call last month, and Mindy was like, Yeah, I always say it's ignorance on fire. And when she said, Ignorance on fire. I literally got like chills and I was like, okay, why don't you guys come on the podcast? Cause that alone, I want to talk about more. So I don't know who wants to go first, but like everything I just unpacked, that's all the thoughts that spun in my head a month ago. And we were talking for a moment of like, let's expand on that. So one, what is ignorance on fire to you, you almost have to chase these call clings when they land on your heart. Yeah. Yeah. I've been using that term since I got into real estate because real estate's one of those industries that you go to school and you learn a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with what you actually do on a daily basis. And so you have to start. Working at a job that you actually have absolutely no idea what to do or how to do it. Cosmetology school is very similar. Like it helps you pass state board, but it does, you're not going to be good at anything you do. But you have a license. Exactly. It doesn't relate to actually day to day. It doesn't teach you how to build a business. It doesn't teach you any of that. And so, the reason I found success early on in real estate is because I, And ignorance on fire, meaning I don't know what I don't know, and I don't care. I'm just gonna go, and I'm gonna figure it out along the way, and I'm gonna trust the process, and I'm gonna just assume that there's gonna be people that come in, to help me figure out what I need to figure out, and if I get stuck, I'll just keep going. Motion. Yeah, in fact, I was just up at a retreat and we did this activity and one of the things was, it was this game called tag and it was, T was for something you're thankful for, A is something you appreciate about yourself, and then G is. Something you're grateful for and the T what I'm thankful for is I said, I'm thankful that I never give up like no matter what I just like have this inside of me to just keep going and maybe I'll fail at something but it doesn't stop me. It slows me down. And so That was kind of, how we approached the podcast, too. And of course, we're big thinkers and big dreamers, and we assumed that by now, we would be millionaires from this podcast. And that hasn't actually happened yet, but. Well, keep going. it's interesting because I have the same DNA wiring as you. It's not something that I can necessarily put into words, it's not something that I do intentionally, it's just always, been there. And I do sometimes struggle with coaching people who don't have that. and I, there's also something to be said for people who are more meticulous and thoughtful but I'm the same as you, Mindy. Like, I just think action creates clarity and creates momentum and just like running full speed ahead and figuring it out as you go. I have found from the people who live lives, whether they're podcast or not. But like, when I'm in their presence and I'm having conversations with them and I'm like, yes, that's the similar lifestyle I want to live, or that's a similar mindset I want to have, that seems to be a common thread. How does that all land with you, Leslie? Are you the same, or are you 100%. I worked with someone long ago that always said 80 percent out is better than 100 percent in meaning, release it when it's not perfect and figure it out along the way versus trying to perfect it and perfect it and perfect it because you'll never put anything out. And so I definitely operate under that mindset. And I was just listening to His podcast over the weekend. And there was one that he was talking about fear. the message essentially, if I had to summarize it in a couple of minutes, he was talking about like doing life scared, like do it fearful, do it scared. And if you can get to. 51 percent then just go, then you have enough momentum to do the other 49 percent scared and you figure it out along the way. And so to me, it reminds me of the same thing of, we're never going to know all the things that's impossible and we can get paralyzed in our fear of what's to come or paralyzed in our fear of it, not being perfect to the point where then we don't end up doing anything. And, you know, Mindy and I talk about that a lot is the last thing that I is to keep not doing things until I perfect them and now all of a sudden I'm 80 years old and I never did the things. do you have like other examples? Obviously the podcast is one of them. Do you have other examples of times you've implemented the That either of you that wants to jump in if an idea comes to mind of just whether it's that ignorance or that doing it scared, because I think sometimes people hear that and sometimes it's like a big idea. It's bringing a business to life, but sometimes it truly is like a day to day just kind of lifestyle almost. I opened Instagram and there was this local farmer promoting their like There's Sparrow Hill farm food or meat subscription. They're like, we were farmers and we wanted clean meat and we couldn't find it. So we started farming and I hit subscribe and now I'm getting 200 worth of meat every single month. And I literally did this in the five minutes that I let my dogs out before I popped on the podcast. And then I was like, Oh, I maybe should have given it a month or like sampled, but I don't, I just go. And then like, if it sucks, You deal with that later. You know what I mean? But like, so much, my, my, my niece, I've been borrowing her KitchenAid to see if I, if I like it. Cause that's a big commitment. I would like a KitchenAid too. I don't have one either. And it's just, they're, they're expensive. So anyway, I just learned that she's going to need it back, which I sort of figured because the holidays are coming. And so I am having the biggest struggle buying a stinking stand mixer. it drives me nuts. I'd rather just. throw money at something and move on with my life and just keep momentum going through things than getting stuck over which KitchenAid maker I'm supposed to buy for my sourdough. I'd rather see the green one with the wooden bowl. That's like 700. That one has been coming across my tick tock and that is ridiculous, but it's so beautiful. Yeah, but it doesn't I read that it doesn't have a handle and stuff. So it's getting some really big flack for that. Just, I'm just, I've been doing some research, but it's like all of those little decisions and you think about all of those little choices that we have to make in a day. And if you let yourself think through all of them, you're going to have decision fatigue before you make your coffee. So sometimes it's just like, yep, I need meat. I need clean, healthy meat. It's really hard to find. I'm subscribing. If it sucks, I'm subscribing. I lost 200 and I'll cancel. So where's the fine line for you between discipline and ignorance on fire, or does discipline not exist for you? Like, where do you know when to tap into that? I think when it's a, a want versus a need is where I kind of like, okay, do you really need another new pair of blue jeans? Maybe not. I have 10, 000. Yeah. You know, so it's, it's more of like, like the meat thing. I think I just, just like acted because it's been my, it was like activated my. What is it? Your reticular activating system, your RAS, because I don't even know what that is. I've been thinking about finding clean meat for probably a year now. I'm sick and tired of thinking about it and going to the grocery store and then not having the nitrate free bacon I need or whatever. And so, I'm, I just, it's like, yes, I need clean meat. Done. There's a solution to the problem. I'm not sitting around. I'm taking it. I'm accepting it. I've been asking for this and I'm moving on to the next thing or else you're dealing with the same problem for weeks, months, and then eventually years and we could have been so much further. I know that's it. So I wanted was a silly example because I think people just get so cool. Transcribed stuck in perfectionism. And so I'm trying to find the perfect combination of words and different people where eventually it hits the right part of people's brains to push through that. Well, and I think it's just, everything is on, you can undo almost everything. Like even, Right, literally. Like I'm in the real estate industry. I'm like, if the house sucks, I can help you figure out how to sell it and that. True. Right? Like, you can undo everything and people just do, they get that decision fatigue I think because they don't take action. And there is something to be said because some people would think buying a home is like a really big decision and like there's a lot of money on the lines and one of the biggest decisions you ever made, but there is something about making those small decisions with. Confidence and not even confidence that it's the right decision, but that you'll figure it out along the way. That then makes you, like, you make bigger decisions that feel big at the moment, but eventually you make bigger and bigger and bigger moves that those ones that you maybe wouldn't have even moved past wouldn't have allowed you to. You know, it goes from a buying house to buying maybe a business. And had you not experienced those slight discomforts, there's no way you could do that. Big, big jump. Yeah. I think about like, who cares if it's wrong, like, there's just as much to learn and being wrong than being right. And those wrong steps oftentimes get us, you know, we learn the things that we learn from those wrong steps to get us back to the right ones, or they help us change our path when we realize, oh, maybe I didn't want to go that way. And I took this wrong step. And I learned something. And now I'm going to completely shift where I was going to over here, Yeah, I think about in a bigger example, I think about my career in that way of, you know, just kind of, Doing what feels right in the moment. And a lot of times people thought that I was making crazy decisions, but ultimately it works I mean, I think we all just need to be okay, making the wrong decisions and not even being okay, making the wrong decisions, but embracing the wrong decisions and getting excited to make the wrong decision. Yeah. cause I think then you, you think about the step. in an entirely different way, it doesn't feel quite as scary. I think that's such a good lesson, and I really think somebody listening, and this is what's going through my head right now as well, is like, if you can't remember the last time you had a pretty strong fail, then that probably tells you you're playing it way too safe, because you always kind of need to be right on the cusp of that, or else who knows what's being left on the table. I feel. Yeah, it's risk reward. Mm hmm. You know, we always hear that. Another thing you wrote, Mindy, when you were filling this out for talking points was mindset. And obviously I talk about mindset all the time. We're doing that right now. But don't waste the struggle. What does that mean to either of you, both of you? That I feel like is almost how the, the podcast started. It's how Mindy and I really connected. November weekend that Mindy mentioned when we first started was us, I think both taking a risk in a new way of having friendship. And when we went away for a weekend, we both just spilled our guts and said, here's who I am. Take it or leave it. And that foundation to our friendship has made it stronger than ever. And some of the things that we shared that weekend were really hard things that normally I think both of us would have kept. Closed in order to not show that side of us. So we presented ourselves in a really different way and found that it actually really helped our friendship. And so I think it just got us thinking about the struggles that we have been through, not only sharing them, but there's, you can be proud of them they shape you into the person that you are. They help find your path. They help you make. The right decisions and the wrong decisions. And so it's not this thing to be shameful of instead, use them for purpose and allow them to help you define your path moving forward. I know one of the things that I talked about at the very beginning is. For a long time, I, as struggle happened, I just kept putting walls up and, you know, avoidance. I'm not going to, I'm just maintaining struggle. Exactly. They are deflecting me there from my path. I just need to keep going. The goal is straight ahead. And I'm just going to block all of these things around me. But then I got to that goal and recognized, like, the goal isn't my goal anymore because all of these things that happened along my life were shifting me away from the path that I was going on and the person that I was becoming, but I didn't listen to them. And so. That, like, finding purpose in that struggle is really that of, like, allow them to change your path. It's a, it's a good thing. You're changing as a person, the more struggle that you go through. Having faith that, that is meant to be in front of you to grow you into who you're meant to be. Yeah, exactly. Well, and I also think, and this is another thing that we really have felt strongly about our podcast from the very beginning, is that That not wasting the struggle is also the way in which we connect on a deep level with other people, like Leslie said, that's, that's why we, you would never know that we've only been friends for a couple years or whatever because we showed up as like, listen, this is all my truths. Like, I just can't, I don't have the energy to go into another relationship and pretend like I have it figured out. I don't. I'm a mess right now and this is what I have going on. and then Leslie's like, okay, my turn. And we both showed up with like everything on the table and then we were like, okay. She's not leaving me. She's not running away from me because I'm broken. And so we run from our struggles also because we're afraid that they're going to cause this cavern between other people when really it's so sad because our struggles are what actually connect us to one another. And so we've just always felt that's why we're so vulnerable about the stuff that we talk about on our podcast because we're like, we know that other people are going through similar things or they can relate to the feelings that we're having about the situation that we're in or whatever. And we just want everybody like, we want to connect people. We want to build a community of women and or men that know that like, Their brokenness is not bad. It's not, there's nothing wrong with them. and in fact, it can be the way in which they can relate and really connect on such a deeper level with other people. So not only do those struggles do everything Leslie said, like, absolutely. They like really help us learn where we're supposed to actually go in this world and this journey, but then they also bring us all together. They're like a magnetic field. If you allow people to see it, that can connect. grow those relationships stronger. This wasn't even the route that I was thinking about going talking point wise, but now that I'm hearing you guys talk about the way your friendship has started, I kind of want to pause for a minute and talk on this specifically, because my whole business and mission and what I've created is creating connections. And because The niches, riches are in the niches or you're supposed to niche down or whatever. Like I happen to make an impact on hairstylists because that's what I do by trade. But like in the grand scheme of everything, I just feel that my superpower is connecting others. I've been that way since I was a child. I've found a way to turn that into a business. So you're saying you went into this friendship so intentional. And I want to ask. Did you both just know that going in? Did somebody talk about it? Because I think making friends as adult women is not easy. And that's really like what I've created. It really is a version of just finding that friendship, that companionship, people that understand you in a way that maybe your husband or your sister or your close friends that have known you for a long time maybe don't. but I think it's really hard for women to make friends as an adult. So like Who spoke that into existence first? Who really pushed to create this friendship? Because I find that if you just are very passive, It's hard to, like, form something as deep and sacred and special as what you two have. So it had to have been a little bit intentional. Yeah, I think we both went into that weekend knowing, because I was actually at a point in my life where I was going through some really tough stuff. And you needed a friend. Well, I needed, I didn't have the capacity, to bring a new friend into my circle. without them just knowing everything. and so, I was like, this is the only way that I can show up to this friendship, and Leslie was like, Yeah, but I kind of went into it knowing, like when you're dating and you have to have the kid conversation or something like you have this big issue that you have to, I was kind of like, okay, I want to do this, but you have to know everything. And I have to trust that you're not going to just judge me and, or, you know, Be afraid of all the crap that I have going on in my life right now. And so I'm like, I just take it or leave it like this is what I have. And this is what I'm going through. And I just laid it all out. And it was so, yeah, I think that we, I mean, at least I know I can't speak for Leslie, but I knew going into that weekend, like, this is the weekend I'm going to have the talk with her and I'm going to tell her all the crap that's going on in my life. So how did you go from cheer mom friends to this like deep conversation? Cause that's a gap right there that maybe you didn't realize you were in. Yeah. Leslie, do you have thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm like trying to think back to that time and part of it I think is timing. you know Mindy talks about she was in a really hard season of her life and I was in the season of my life where I had gotten to that goal that I referenced earlier and I was miserable. And so I think we were both just in a place where it's like, what have I got to lose at this point? And That mindset, I, I don't, it's like, I don't know, talking about, like manifested it into being, I think that there are energies as silly as that sounds were just like they were, it was, I don't know, it just was there. Two are meant to have each other and that exactly just happened. Well, and we did have, Our friendship had escalated prior to that. We had been on, I think, a vacation at that point. And we had started, like, our daughters are in competitive cheer, so we're gone. I did competitive cheer, so I do know that. You know, yeah. so we kind of, like, At one point decided like, Oh, well, we should hang out together during these kind of cheer weekends. And then I think we did, a trip together or whatever. And so we'd started to just talk more and more about things. And then Leslie would say something like, Oh, me too. And I would say something and she'd be like, yeah, me too. As we just got to know each other through cheer and through just spending all these weekends and stuff together, like, wow, we have a lot in common. and the things that we have in common, I feel like are some of those things that you don't have in common with everybody. It's like those really strong drives and motivation and all the, some of those things in our careers that we have in common, you don't necessarily find with, all of your friends or your friends from growing up or whatever. my husband always referenced that movie where, did we just become best friends? That Brothers? Yeah, Brothers. it was, moment after moment like that, Me too. And I fully believe in soulmate friendships as well. it does just sound like you guys really saw each other and kind of knew and that you had that continual, it's hard making friends as adults. And if it sounds like maybe if it weren't for cheer, it wouldn't have gotten to that level and that, you know, probably not deep bond that you two have. But I'm so grateful that you guys, you know, have found that because I think there's a lot of. Lonely women out there, you know, I mean, you have a lot of friends, but it's really hard. And I think going back to what you guys said of the don't waste the struggle, like, I don't know if it's social media that has caused it. I don't know what it is. But a lot of people will just, really keep a lot of that to themselves and feel horribly lonely. And what I think my purpose here is, is just Sometimes just creating that space, like so many times I, I do, I plan retreats. my full time job is creating connections with people and I'll get in my own head. You know, my ego will start talking and say like, Oh, you need to create a workshop. You need to teach something you need to hear in a time and time and time. Again, I'm just taught like. No, Lisa, you simply just need to create a space. That is all women need, like 99 percent of the time is just a space to be seen, a safe space that makes sure they're not going to get stomped all over and, you know, all those fears that come up. and that's magical. Truthfully, it really is. Yeah, I think I totally agree. I think we're all trying really hard to find those connections and find those relationships and we're trying so hard at it that we were showing up as who we think people want us to show up as Our true selves out of fear of judgment and thinking that that's going to help us find the friend out there when in reality, all that's doing is pushing us further and further away from finding that real friend, because then all these people are putting on their masks to and then you find yourself with a lot of people around me, but I sure do feel lonely and nobody even really sees me for who I am. Yeah. That's good. That's good stuff. All right. I had another talking point. Staying curious in the pursuit of finding purpose. What comes up for either of you with that specifically? You want to go first or you want me to? I think staying curious, somehow, I think we just kind of organically coined that phrase I think it's our exit line, but staying curious, I think. We are both working really, really hard at being present. And again, I don't want to speak for Mindy, but in this pursuit of being present is asking a lot of questions. Like, why do I. Why do I feel the way that I feel right now? Or why do I feel uncomfortable? Why do I feel nervous or why do I just feel joyful right now? And being really aware of what our bodies are feeling and how our bodies are reacting in certain situations has. Helped me get closer to the version of me that feels most authentic in the world And I think it's just an endless pursuit That's where that word comes from is I don't think you ever like just all of a sudden or like no finish line here I am I've arrived. Yeah, but It's just really paying attention. I think we're so quick to just fly through our days as fast as we possibly can, wishing for the weekend to get here and missing five days in the meantime. And so if we can just really pay attention to. How we are showing up and feeling in the world, there's signs and clues that are happening every single day and the most simple things that are helping us direct ourselves to our real being, we just, you have to be intentional. About finding them and listening. I love that so much. And I want to know just for you, Leslie, specifically, like putting that actually into action and into place. Is this just a mindfulness? Is this just constantly running in the back of your mind, this curiosity? Is this checking in with a friend? Is that when your moments of curiosity really bubble? Having someone to almost hold a mirror up and ask you those questions? Is it journaling for you? Is it prayer? Is it meditation? What is it for you? How do you practice that curiosity? For a while, I tried to force it into journaling or I tried to force it into meditation and would feel like, Oh my God, I'm never going to be able to figure this out. I can't be consistent with checking a box. Yeah, I was checking a box and it felt hard. And so I just kind of dropped it. But it was in the moments where I'm like, No, I'm just. As I'm getting ready in the morning, like it feels really good to sit and make a cup of coffee while staring out the window. So I'm going to keep doing that. And I'm going to notice that. I'm going to notice what that is. I don't think it needs to be this like significant, like I'm going to set my alarm early and get up and do 15 minutes of meditation. I don't have the patience for that. I've never been good at it. And so I can figure out how to find those moments of reflection as I go through my day. And That's been a total game changer for me was that final realization of I don't need to journal. That's for some people. It's just not for me. It's a state of mind and an inner dialogue it sounds like for you. Yes, exactly. Mindy, do you have major thoughts on staying curious in the pursuit of finding purpose or is it the same as Leslie? Yeah, I mean, it's really the same ideas. and I think for me part of it is I've been on a health journey because I had some health issues that I needed to deal with. And so I believe that like if we don't if we stuff down emotional https: otter. ai Past, you know, hardships emotionally that our physical body can't heal. And so in this like sort of desperation to heal my physical body, I've learned that I need to be really curious about those like ruminating thoughts. And so for me, it's been intentional, like Leslie said, like being present. And when those thoughts come up, instead of trying to. Trying to shove them back down my curiosity and it tends to go to like I just I ask myself and I ask other people now to I was at this retreat. Like I said, I'm like, I'm kind of embarrassed by the amount of questions I asked, but I've learned that I have through this practice that Leslie and I have been doing and we talk about on the podcast. I have. Genuinely become a very curious person about why am I having that thought? Why does that thought keep coming up? Like asking myself all of these things for me, I do like to journal. So journaling them and getting them out and then just continuing, like the curiosity, like now where, like, it's just, I'm constantly. Following these rabbit trails, just trying to figure life out. It's really, I'm, what I'm hearing is that like curiosity is a core value for both of you. And I'm, I'm asking myself if that is one for me or that's something I'm going to be mindful of. Like curiosity being like that, that is who I am, that's who I will always be. That's, that's something I will always fall back on. and you realize quickly that is happening for a reason. And what it uncovers really, Yeah, I have one quick good example that might help kind of put this into context. So, because I've shared them in Enneagram 3, everything's got to be like Perfect. I stopped running several years ago because it started messing with my head. Like I was never fast enough. It wasn't enough miles. I just started really getting miserable about it. And one day I was out walking, I used to walk very regularly and I was really freaking bored. And so I just started asking myself questions about running. Like why, why did you hate it? And like, and then I would get, I would come up with that answer and then I would ask another question and I'd be like, well, what if. Like, what if you, sorry my dogs are, what if you, what if you, what if the goal was to run as slow as you possibly could instead of running as fast as you, you know, would you enjoy it more then? And so I literally had this full blown conversation with myself. Like you coached yourself. Yes. About the curiosity I had about why did I stop and why did I hate it? Because at one point I loved running. and so I just went through this whole cycle and now I'm, I'm running again. And so I was able to coach myself through that and running for me. Like it's when I get, like, you talk about magic moments, like that's when the magic moments like arrive for me. And so, and I know Leslie is the same, she's trained for marathon. And so I missed that part of it. you don't get the same endorphins. You don't get the same chemical. responses from walking as you do running. And so there was a component that I missed. And so just me asking myself all of this, these questions about running, I, got myself back into running and I'm really enjoying it more than I've ever enjoyed it in my entire life. And I really think that's the layer of going to self healing or whatever you want to call it. We have all these, you know, buzzwords, but like getting to a point, I think curiosity is the answer to that of, I'm bored. My body's itchy. It's craving something. You were craving running. What is this? What is happening in my body right now? Being aware enough of what, something's happening. What is this that's happening? Asking yourself. And to me, that really is almost like a, a spiritual thing. Like, cause to me, I'm like, are you talking to yourself? Are you talking to your creator? Are you talking to the highest version of yourself? Not that we need to get it, unpack all of that, but it is really fascinating. That's then how we get to the point and of course they'll hit roadblocks and you'll hit things that your tools in your toolbox don't you don't have the ability to solve them yet and you'll need to outsource that to others but i do think getting i think curiosity you're right is really one of those tricks or core values or something to take on to get to the point of self therapy self healing self coaching whatever you want to call it Fascinating. Wow. Great conversation, ladies. I knew it was going to be good. I know it's weird getting on with people you hardly know, but I'm just telling you, I've said it so many times on this podcast, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to have a reason. Why else would we have just a deep ass conversation like this, you know, other than if we were recording it. So I'm just so grateful. And, to Carissa, who made this connection, thank you. And to everybody who ever listens, if you ever feel super called to either of these ladies stories, I'm sure they would be open to expanding on another conversation and just staying curious and having these connections, or if there's somebody else that you would, think that I would connect with, well, I'm very open to those conversations, because I had no idea the route this was going to go. I was a little bit nervous. It's a little nerve wracking talking to people you have no idea what you're about to say, who they are, what they have going on. But What beautiful gems we unpacked there. I love it. Thanks for having us. This was really fun. Yeah, thanks for having us. Absolutely. So obviously I can leave the podcast in the show notes, the Banyan Effect podcast. You can find it on all places the podcasts are, but I will also link it. Is there anything else I can link your guys Instagram? Any other ways to find you if somebody really feels drawn to something that either of you said? Well, for now it's our personal Instagrams. Which we can share with you. but I also wanted to share too that we do have an episode on adult friendships. So if anybody wants to go deep on that, we can link that episode that, cause we know that that's not something that's, necessarily easy for people. Yeah, I'll definitely link that. Well, thank you ladies for both of you. Really great getting to know both of you. I love just kind of collecting these new friendships along the way So it was really great connecting with both of you thank you everybody for listening Like I said, all the info will be in the show notes and I will talk to you all next week