Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations
Welcome to 'Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations', your source of inspiration and empowerment inside the beauty industry. Hosted by Lisa Huff, this podcast aims to ignite passion, purpose, and potential in hairstylists, salon owners, and industry professionals worldwide.
Each episode, ranging from concise 15-minute insights to detailed hour-long conversations, is thoughtfully curated to offer a mix of solo musings, co-hosted discussions, and interviews with members of our close-knit Stylist Soul Tribe community and other industry trailblazers.
We delve into business-building strategies, lifestyle design, personal growth, and the power of the law of attraction. Our conversations are both uplifting and insightful, crafted to help you build a life and business beyond your wildest dreams.
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So join us as we explore the transformative power of community and celebrate the beauty of becoming, together.
Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations
036 - From Commission to Booth Rental: Navigating Salon Ownership with Lee Spencer – Tips, Strategies, and Insights on Building a Successful Business
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- The importance of having a financial cushion for unforeseen events.
- How to effectively negotiate leases and understand legal documents.
- Strategies for maintaining a successful booth rental salon.
- The significance of creating a supportive salon culture.
- Lee’s advice on knowing when to go independent and how to prepare for it.
Connect with Lisa Huff
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff, and today we have an incredible guest who reached out to me after I made my six month podcast anniversary post on Instagram and I said that I wanted to form some new connections and have some new people on the podcast. She has been in the industry for over 25 years. She's a seasoned professional with deep expertise in the booth rental salon model. And she's here to share her knowledge and expertise with us. Please join me in welcoming the founder of Startup Stylists, a coach for transforming stylists into confident booth renters and salon owners, Leigh Spencer. Thank you so much for joining us today, Leigh. Thank you. I'm very excited. Awesome. Okay, so I know we've like kind of known each other in passing lightly through the years you were in Thrivers. We connected with Thrivers Live in the past, so we kind of know each other, but I don't know Leigh very much, so you guys are going to hear me getting to know her. In real time. We were chatting a little bit before I hit record, just kind of going over our talking points and stuff like that. But why don't you just kind of introduce yourself a little bit, Lee, go back as far as what feels relevant. Tell us a bit of your story, what got you into the industry, and specifically what got you into booth rental and made you so passionate about that. Okay. Well. The story is kind of crazy because I was 18 years old. I was a waitress server in high school. My parents dropped out of high school and were on their own businesses. And I had a friend. Who said to me, what are you going to do now when you graduate? I'm like, I don't know. She says, well, I'm going to beauty school and I said, Oh my God, I love doing my hair and makeup. I'm going to go to. Yeah. So I graduated in May. I went to a private school in May. I graduated in December and that started my journey and I loved it. And I shall also say I have ADD, so school was a very it was very challenging. Yeah. Yeah. I think all of us can relate to that. Yeah. And for some reason cosmetology school just did something for me. I love that. And yeah, so then that started my journey, you know, and in the, in the day back where you didn't really have a way to connect with clients, it was, it took five years to build a clientele. Wow. And you had a hope and pray. And what year was this? I know you said you've been in this industry for 25 years. No, I've been in the Bruce Reynolds industry for 25. Doing here for 40. This is my 40th. Incredible. Wow. Amazing. So I literally just started you know, feeding off of people to get clients and I have a huge family. I'm Greek and Italian. So all my clients were my family. They're like, Lee's doing hair. Everybody go see her. I love that. So then you know, fast forward. Started doing really well. And I think I have this I think I connect well with, with guests. I am drawn to them and I feel that we have great communication. Yeah. So I started searching around for a new place to work because the place was best. When was this? When did the search start? This was in the nineties. Okay. So, because that my, my kids were probably around five or something like that. It was in the nineties. And I found a place and I went to have an interview with them and they rented stations and I never heard of this. I didn't really, you know, know much about it. This was no, yeah, very new. And I said, she says to me, how much do you bring in a week? And I said, well, the best week I had was 1, 200. Yeah. And she said, she said, wow, she goes, you'll do really good. Yeah. Okay. So do you remember what your commission split was before you went booth rental? Okay. Yeah. Which was great. It was great. You know, but this is going back into, you know, eighties and nineties. Yeah. They didn't take out product costs. They didn't take out chemical. They didn't take out anything. It was 50, 50. Wow. And to be honest with you, it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I was able to, you know, do something for myself a little bit. And then when I went into rental, I think what happened was the ladies who were the landlords, they also did hair and they really brought on a sense of professionalism and they didn't like something. We have leases, but it was very much like a system. Yeah. The way we paid shampoo help, everybody chipped in together, the way everybody chipped in. It was like a system, but you were your own business. Love that. So about eight or nine, 10 years into that, I, I worked a lot and the owners came up to me and they said, Lee, we want to retire. Wow. And We want to know if you would buy it, buy it, buy out, buy us out. Wow. How old were you in that, at that time? In my thirties. Was that like an answered prayer or were you like, oh my God, I never even thought of that? No, I always thought of going on my own, but I would never. Want to rent space because I had already owned a building. I love real estate by the way Oh, okay at about seven houses I love, you know moving around and amazing my sister and I had owned a building that was in the center of town of Richfield Ohio. Yeah. And here we it was a commercial building, historical building, and I bought it with her and we had to rent it out. So when the owners approached me, I was automatically thinking, I'm not going to rent space from them. I'm going to go into my own place. Because they did not offer space for booth rental then. You had to get a brick and mortar building. You had to be out and spend two, three, four thousand a month on rent. Did they own the building or they were they just trying to sell you the business? Okay, and then you were going to take over the lease. Okay, interesting. But what's really more interesting is Our leases were week to week, which means nothing. Yeah. That means nothing when you're in business because I've heard month to month, week to week is wild. Yes. And that's what really started my journey with teaching stylists because week to week brings no value to your business. You need to sell it. It's like, yeah, here's this business you can buy. And next week everything can be gone. Exactly. That's when I knew if I'm going to put any money into anybody's building, it will be into my own building. So you said no, or did that end up working? No, I said no. And I told them, I told them what I was going to do. And I said to them, you know, another thing with being in the business for yourself. It's one thing like I don't want to sound harsh when I say this, but you need to put on the big girl panties because you need to communicate. Because at that point I told them, listen, I'm going to give you notice. I'm going to be leaving, but I do want to stay here. And I know you're not my boss or my landlord, but yet I don't want to stop you from getting rent, but I am able to still stay here a year. Will you keep me? Yeah. And they. We're like, yes, Lee. Yeah. I mean, they were wonderful to me. They taught me. And I think that also goes to show their culture, that you weren't afraid to share that and have them say, pack your stuff. Because I'm sure even back then, I know the industry has come a long way. I haven't, you know, I'm only 31 years old. I haven't been doing it this long, but like, I know back then that we talked about like old school stuff. I'm sure that could have been very cutthroat of like, get out, go. You're not taking any of our clients this year while you're here. Yeah. So that's, that sounds like they were amazing leaders. They were amazing and they taught me so much and I'm grateful to them. That's really started my journey. They let me stay. I opened up my building too, because I own the building. It's historical. So it took a year of zoning and everything and then a whole year of construction. And that started my journey to where I now do not start a booth rental salon. I decide I'm going to do a commission salon. Okay. And I was that was that like, maybe profit margin seemed higher or what were you? I think that's what did it, to be honest with you, I'm not really sure at that time what my thoughts were. Maybe control, you have more control in a commission space. Maybe you wanted that. I don't know. You know, it's really crazy. I loved booth frontal. So why I went that way. I don't know. It's still so crazy to me why I did that. You wish you could go peek in your brain and be like, Hello, it's right in front of you. Yeah. Oh, exactly. But then I do think things happen for a reason. You learn a lot. Once I opened. That's another you know, thing that I, I don't wanna preach in a negative way, but what happened is I'm so, I'm so much on saving for that rainy day because what happened to me that I was not prepared for, I had two rainy days the first year I opened. Well, I ended up having surgery and being sick for six or six months. And then six months later, I had to have another surgery. I was out of work for another six or eight months. And my sister, my family, they were all helping me with the business. How many team members did you have at that time? We had 15 stylists. How? Oh my. Okay. We have 15 stylists that you're meeting. And this is my first year and wait, I'm book solid behind the chair. Oh my. So I was overwhelmed. But yet, things just, I just said, you know what, I'm going to make the whole salon booth, Reynold. I'm going to teach them how to do it because I'm afraid if I can't be there to lead like I have been, we're going to end up not in a good space. I don't know if you remember that clearly, because obviously a lot of time has passed from that. Was that in between surgeries and leaves or like, when did you realize, have been so scary at the moment of like, I have all of this on my plate. I have all these people counting on me. I have this. I need to lead all of these people. I'm not going to be around. Do you remember, like, did you do it when you found out the first surgery? Did you do it midway through? Okay. We can't sustain this. Did you do it after? How did that play out? Right after the first surgery? I was planting the seed, but it wasn't until the second surgery, because when you opened a new business, because I was commissioned, you're like the way taxes work, it was like, I had a whole year. Then I ended up with a 36, 000 payroll tax bill. Oh my goodness. Yes. And. I got my heart drops now when I think about it. Yeah. Talk about like a pivotal core memory. You learned a lot that happened when I said, no, I'm going to make this booth rental. I it's just too much. I think it wasn't sustainable. Yeah. And I was sick. I was sick for, you know, almost two years of this business being opened. So that's when it happened as somewhere in between that second surgery. And how did your 15 girls respond to that shift? And like, how did you navigate that transition? So it was interesting because they were really, because we were so tight knit, I was like, you guys, I promise, please trust me. Trust me. I'm not going to let you fail. I was begging. Yeah. But I think because they knew me for that. They knew your heart. I think they did. And they knew my family always showed up to help. And, you know, even though, and it was just a tough time trying to figure it all out. Yeah. And I will tell you this. They did all transform into booth rental. And it was the best experience because they have, even till this day, just always thank me for showing them and it, I, you know, I love that organic, just, it just happened. So, Organically. And it had to happen because I would not be in business. I would be out of business, which is very scary. And if I didn't have 36, 000 to pay my, that's where it all starts. Because what happens is these unexpected things pop up. And then you're grasping, how am I going to get this money? How am I going to get that money? And that's when work is not fun anymore. And there was many years where I struggled and I wanted to sell my salon. And. I feel that a lot of stylists do struggle with us. They see the shiny blingy object of owning a salon and it is rewarding. It's wonderful, but it's more wonderful if you have a little more of a, a, a safeguard, a little more. You know, just a little bit. Totally. And it sounds like these, these stylists really loved you and trusted you. And it is interesting because you can have a booth rental space with culture. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too. And I think probably transitioning from this employee space where this is exactly how you're expected to show up. You are one of our teams. You are one of us, you are representing us into the booth. Guys, I can't keep this afloat. So either you go independent and I've got your back. I'm going to help you every step of the way, or you have to find a new place to work. And they were probably like, no, we're happy here. We love this. So that's such a fascinating transition. Now, this is going to be a bold question. I don't know if you have the answer to this, cause obviously you only know your life, but do you think it's fair to say that. And obviously both models can work. A commission model can work, a mental model can work, a lot of other models can work. Do you think it's fair to say, though, that if there's owners, and you may find this when you're coaching people, if there's owners that are really, you know, in the thick of it, and, and kind of like you're saying, not the same situation where they get sick or anything like that, but where they're just like, I can't lead at this capacity. What did I get myself into? Do you feel like a lot of the times the solution could be transitioning to, that's it? Independent or booth rental? Or what do you think about that? I think a lot of the stress, to be honest with you, is money. Yeah. Money's the root of it all. Because if you are not set up properly, You have the worries. That's what it's all about. It's your inventory. It's your space. It's the cleaning lady. It's the garbage disposal. It's, it's everything that it takes to run a business. And that, that now is one aspect of it. Now it's the other aspect of. The culture and everyone coming together because when it's booth rental, they are in their own business. You have some skin in the game. I've really never even thought about it like that. But when you just said inventory, it kind of popped in my head too. And it's like, also those stylists are going to behave different. Cause they're responsible for that. So they're not dumping two ounces of color down the drain. They're not behaving the same way they did when it was just like, Oh, someone else has this, has this bill to cover. So that is, that is. Fascinating, because yeah, the, the story I've always heard, you know, with how long I've been in the industry is just commission. You really get to control the culture. You get, this is exactly how we do things. You do them by the book. We control your schedule. We control all of these things. Of course, you can choose to have a model that is more flexed. But I think that's what draws people in. And then finances, there could be more profit margins if you really work the finance as well. And then you think independent, it's just like, You have more freedom, you can't control them, you can't tell them when they can and can't come in, you can't tell them how to dress, how to wear, things like that. So now, I know we said we were going to talk about leases, you're really passionate about leases, legal documents, all of those things. I guess, would you agree that you're truly just a landlord in that place or also feel free to go on your tangent about how important those legal documents that we're signing are? I think it's both you, you are strictly a landlord, especially if you are not working as a stylist. I am working as a stylist, like the stylist in my salon. I am sweeping air. I am one of them. I am putting in just as much energy and I expect nothing less or more in a sense where what I wouldn't do. Wow. And what a lot of stylists, I feel throughout all the years of doing this, what I find the common is even though they rent space, they don't sometimes treat it as their own business. They still somehow feel like I'm the boss. And I do preach that I'm not your boss, but I'm here. I'm your coworker. Let's talk patients, but I'm not here to, to dictate in a sense of help me out here. Yeah, no, I totally get what you're saying. If you're a salon open concept. Cause my brain then goes to have through the years. Have you run into hiccups where it's like someone. you know, totally just like is not dressing the part or not showing up in the way that you want your whole salon to be represented or maybe, you know, is way too loud or doesn't have the best bedside manner, anything like that. And how do you navigate that saying, I am not your boss, you do your thing. People have very different standards for what they're willing to accept in their business. And that's where I believe when, when they come in first to even look at the space, yes, my salon is open concept. And, you know, I think in today we are more tuned into telling everybody, well, I don't like how she does this. And I don't like, and really it gets so nitpicky. But I do know is. My stylists have a lot of space with their stations. They have huge stations. They have lots of storage. They're not on top of each other. Now, 15 years ago, we were on top of each other. Yeah. But we are not that way today. Hmm. And. That the way I go about it is if someone says, and I think because I am so open with the stylist, they can come to me and they can say, you know, what do you think about this? And then I do try to understand where they're coming from and listen to them and to make changes. But there are times when I say, listen, quit picking somebody apart. I actually love that take because I kind of agree and I it's interesting to hear you say that I think a lot of salon owners to go into that role because one they think that's their next step or they eventually want this vision of theirs and they're so like almost dictatorship and I kind of love that your answer is like chill out like if they're not doing anything that bad, let people be people and we'll just have a happier. And you know what the dress code today's world, people are who they are. When they're coming in to look at space, they might be checking me out, but I'm checking them out. Yeah. And I will tell you in the beginning years, I would only go for, they want to rent space. I'm a landlord. I just come in and rent the space. It's the money and you know, it covers the overhead. That's great. Yeah. But. Cool. When you don't have to worry about your, don't get me wrong. You always have, you're not, I'm not in business, not to be there to make a profit, your business to make a profit for sure. But I do really consider the person who's coming into my space. I now know within 10 minutes of talking, if they're the right person or not. Yeah. And do you know what? I will be honest with you. I will be honest with them. Yeah. I'm not sure if this is going to be right for you. You know, maybe if she's, you know, I don't know, I'm just going to say 18 or 20 years old and everybody in my salon is 38 to 50. Yeah. No, I don't want you to feel like you're with a bunch of, you know, older women, stylists that, you know, so I will not be shy to tell them. Wow. I don't think this is good. And I'm sure that comes with experience. What would you say to somebody who's a newer owner in a booth rental position and they're having a hard time navigating if their intuition is just being fearful because this is new or if someone's actually not a good fit? Like, what kind of advice would you give somebody in that? Because you've obviously, you've gotten to the point where you know and you're confident enough and have shared with enough grace to just say it. But what if somebody's like, Oh gosh, should I go for it? There was a couple red flags, but there was some green flags, like what's the right move? Well, I will be okay. So on that take also, I will be honest with Sarah saying the first 10 minutes, you might have that gut feeling, but you truly do not know someone till you work with them. Yeah. And I don't, I, I hear this over and over and over and until you work side by side, see how they are with their clients, see how they are in the salon, see how they're interacting with all the other stylists that shows you who a person is. And you will never know that until you work with them. It's like, it's almost like in a relationship, like you can love dating someone and then you move in and you're like, Ooh, just kidding. We're not a good fit. Yeah. You get that first vibe of, Oh my God, I love this person. They're going to be great. Then they come in and I hate to say it, but it's a shit show. So no, you have to, and that's, that goes back to the lease too. If you even feel like you are hesitant, but you still want to try it, you can put in the lease, you know, people don't want to be leaving salons all the time, but Hey, listen, if this doesn't work in 90 days, if you're not happy or I'm not happy. There's so many ways to navigate with this lease to make it look Okay, let's go like deep into leases. Tell me, because you, you, you, we touched upon that before we hit record. You put that in some of your talking points when you first reached out to me. So like, what do people need to know when they come to leases? What are the misconceptions? Go deep on leases. The first misconception is people think it's just a piece of paper and that they're not legally binded. That's the first misconsumption. The second is you, you, when you go into something and sign a legal document, you want to know exactly the hours of operation, my salon, no one can be in there on Sundays because whether it's cleaning or I need to go in and paint or whatever it has to be done, I don't want to have to worry. About or a hair show, whatever. I don't have to worry about people are working because they are in their own business and you need to let them run their own business. And so you need to have the hours of operation that, that Lisi can enter that building. You also need to know an exit plan. If my stylist have to give a 90 day written notice, if they do not give a 90 day written notice before their term ends, it rolls over. For another two, three or four or five years, however they sign. I don't even take anybody under a two year lease. And listen, that is for two reasons. One is I have a business. If you want to ever sell your business. There is no value without a lease. If I ever need to get a loan for an addition or to expand or whatever I want to do, you need to be able to count on that. Exactly. But not only is it good for the owner, it is just as good for the stylist. The stylists don't have that security without a lease. You can be tossed out tomorrow. Yeah. I feel like, correct me if I'm wrong. You told me this, I think before we hit record, tell the story about how your old salon, you realize was that, did you just say that just now? No, no, no. Before we hit record. So before we hit record, I booth rented for about 10 years prior to opening my salon. I never had intentions of opening my ever. What happened was, I would have been there for probably the day I die. I love them. A few owners who were also stylists approached me because I worked all the time. I had a great clientele. They said, Lee, we want to retire. Will you buy us out? And I was so. Like, wow. They asked me, but on the same token, I was having a panic attack saying, Oh my gosh, I'm going to have nowhere to go. What am I going to do? I was panicking and I went looking for a place to run on my own and to realize. There's no booth rental salons. There's no one even knows what a booth rental salon is. So I have to now rent a brick and mortar building, which is now two, three, 4, 000 a month. And the reason I would not even consider that is because we had week to week leases. Yeah. If I were to buy these people out for however much money, I don't know what they wanted. They never got that far. I'm just going to say 50, 000. Yeah. Why would I pay 50, 000 when everybody could walk out next week? This business could not exactly. Yeah. That's why leases are so important. Okay. But to play devil's advocate, you definitely have experience. I want to hear your thought on this. I hear, especially in soul tribe, other, we have tons of owners. I hear so many different perspectives. A lot of people will say, 90 day written notice is greater, even a 30 day written notice, God forbid somebody forgot to give you the 90 day notice. It rolls over until let's say two years. If they wanted to leave, I think a lot of salon owners feel that having a stylist who doesn't want to be there will be a cancer to their business. They'd rather have that flex so that they don't have that in their space. So is that something that you will sway on given the circumstances? Or like, do you just want the legalities of their locked in? I can show that on paper. Or would you actually have someone stick around if there was a falling out of some kind? Well, what? What no, what happens is you can leave. You'll just, you know, you still have to pay money. I might not charge you the full two years, but you will have to pay money to negotiate that that exit. If they want out. They're going to do that. Well, just like you said, putting on your big girl panties. This isn't a joke. We're all signing legal documents that will hold up in court. We need to be serious with how we handle those things. And you said this before we hit record too, and I can't tell you how many times I've been there. I know people have been there. You get handed a four page lease at a team meeting. Everyone signs it and hands it back and nobody even looks at it and reads it. And that's serious and important. Yes, very serious. And you know, the limit and another aspect, yeah, put your big girl panties on. But you know, there is also you can negotiate. People do not realize the art of negotiation. Yeah. And if you know, I'm all for that because it's an experience for everybody. So if they listen. Oh my gosh. I didn't realize that. Listen, let's work something out, especially if, you know, am I going to tie her down for two years? No. But let's guess what? I have negotiation power now, we have negotiation power, but legally I can, but you know what? I don't need to, I can make it work. We could all make it work. And that's the beauty. I think of understanding. The human being, understanding leases, understanding your finances and what you're capable of losing or not losing or what you're willing to walk away from. And everybody coming together in an adult like manner. Yep. Yep. I love that. I, I think that's very important and needs to be talked about more. And I was asking Lee before we hit record, you know, what. Her offers are right now what she's doing. And she says, it's mostly just one on one coaching. And you said you'd be in situations where stylists would say, you know, my landlord gave me this lease and I have to go over it. You'll read paragraph by paragraph. Is there anything else major in a lease that you feel like people should really be looking for? Obviously the lesson so far is like. Read it, take it home, read it, word for word, know what you're getting into, mark it up, make changes before you sign it, if that's what's needed. Is there anything else that people should really like look out for? Well, as far as the stylist looking at the lease, it's basically, you know, the time of operation, what type of security do they have? Always check to see what type of parking they have. You know, you want to protect yourself also as the stylist. What, what is, what type of notice do I need to exit? Those are the important things as the owner handing over a lease, you better make sure that those I stated in the lease about every stylist is responsible for their own licensing, their own taxes, their own insurance. It's still, even though you are a rental salon, I have to make sure insurances are up to date. It's written everywhere and everybody works both ways and it really does protect both parties. It's not a thing. It really isn't. And obviously you had that. moment back when you transitioned into booth rental for your salon, you coached all of them, you, you coached stylists now on a regular basis with that. You, you taught, you said another thing that stylists don't know or that you had to bring people through when it comes to starting booth rental and going independent is like budgeting, so like where do you even begin to talk with people about when they know It's time that they can go independent or how to even navigate the finances. I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even, first of all, I wouldn't even consider being an independent until you are definitely retaining 85 percent of your clients. How to doubt, because if you Have a situation and there is no, you know, when you work at a commission salon and you walk in the back room, you're like, Oh my God, her foils are burning. What am I going to do? There might not be nobody at the salon that day. You're on your own. Yeah, until you can handle those situations. Yeah. And when you're booked out 85%, you pretty much have experienced a lot of things that you can handle on your own. And also you and I are bringing in money on a consistent basis. So that's the one thing. As far as I had a brain moment, a budget, things like that. What, what new, what style is transitioning and independent need to think about? So that is the one thing. The second thing is having inventory. You know, if one of your clients want to be pink and you don't have pink shirt, you know, my salons were very, thank God we are such a great group that everyone, Hey, we, that's how my salon is too. We shop from each other all the time. It's okay. There's nothing wrong. Some salons are not like that. So you really have to know that part of it. And when you have inventory. Are you, do you have enough to supply if your guests, you know, a lot of people just think, Oh, she's a sick son. You get it ready. But a lot of people don't go through this, the step of Susie, did you let, you know, let's go. What's going on? Are you happy? Are we changing anything? Highlights? Yes. Keep things fresh and new all the time. You want to treat that guest. Like you did the first time you ever met them. Yeah. And you have a full inventory to pull whatever you need to, to do whatever. Exactly. Yeah. So I would just say having your 85%, having some money saved so you can now rent your space. Go buy your, your inventory is going to be a thousand bucks for sure. Yeah, easy, easy to set yourself up. You have to have all your own equipment also. Then that's not even, you know, if you have any type of your booking system, marketing, just, you know, you make more. But you also give time to, so you have to weigh it out. Do you really make more so you need to make sure you're making more to outweigh the time you're giving up? Yeah. And it's such a hard jump to make because even as you're saying that, it's almost kind of scary. And I can just imagine stylist must be like, Oh shoot, I'm not ready yet. But as somebody who's also independent and oh my God, my journey to go into independent fashion. Yeah. transformed the trajectory of my entire life. Like, I went from a commissioned Walmart salon to a studio to where I am today. So like, it's such a fine line of knowing when to take that jump and to take that risk. And those tips, while we have to know them, we have to know the truth, we have to be buckled up and prepared. It is always so scary to know when the right time is for that. Well, I think the most, the most important advice I can give to stylists is when they are going on their own is they have to learn how to fish for themselves. We are all there to help, but at the end of the day, you are the one who have to bring that client back. over and over. You are the one who has to budget their money over and over. You are the one who has to look at their inventory weekly. You have to clean your station daily. You have to sanitize your own stuff. You have to do everything yourself. If you are not that type of person, Do not go into booth rental. Yeah. Yeah. What percentage of people would you say that you coach and that you run into is that the right move for and like, because it's also, I think a lot of people also get sucked into the, you know, story or the idea of like, that's the next step eventually. But I know plenty of people that are very content in their commission space. And if the salon owner it has its own Set up right. There really is no glass ceiling there. And they feel really good about that. So like what percentage of people would you say that come to you for coaching? Like it is the right move and it's time for them. I would say. 80% are ready Because they found you, they're at that point. Yeah. I, I think they are ready. The, the people that maybe that I had to really and I don't wanna say. Not talk them out of it. I want them to take a little more time to prepare Are the ones who are booth renters and now they want to open their own salon So what's that jump look like and when what are the red flags for you where you're like, oh take a little bit more time Well, first of all The one there's a few red flags one is when you are leasing space now like say in a strip center or a bigger space if you Do not have booth renters You You better know how you're going to make that be able to cover it on your own yourself. And believe me, it has happened. And you will have to maybe one day have to dish out a week or two or three. Yeah, and it's going to be, it will be tight, of course, but you have to be able to cover that on your own. Yeah. And another thing that I noticed, a lot of stylists, they don't plan their space out properly for a square footage they have to how many stations they have. I have salons that are, you know, 2, 500 square feet with six stations. You can't collect enough rent to pay that overhead. Wow. That's fascinating. You need to really look at that square footage. What space is bringing in what amount of money. And is that just based on what you, cause obviously every location is going to be so different. Is that just based, like what percentage would you say if someone's like, okay, I want a space. Like I'm going to say, for example, we have a member in soul tribe. I'm sure she would be cool with me sharing her name, Grace. She was actually on a few episodes ago. I was in her in her salon location and it's a massive building and she's from the same small town that I still work out of. And so real estate is very low. Like my booth rental, when I tell people from other places how low it is, they like freak out, but it's a tiny small town in Cornfield, Illinois. She has a massive space. Like if she wanted to, she could probably have 25 stylists in there. She right now, she has Six stations. She's growing slowly, but I know her overhead is way lower than it would be anywhere else in the world. So like, is there a, is there a ratio that people should look at when it comes to that? So, so let me tell you, this is something my father taught me when I was a very young child, my whole life. The key to making money is buying. So in the building, or what do you mean when buying understanding your costs? So say that building 3000 square feet is 4500 a month. But she was able to negotiate at 2500 a month. That the buying power. Negotiating power keeping the expenses. Huh. Oh, that's the key to making money Hmm when you overextend, so when you tell me what the percentage You can't give a percentage. It's your, it's what your buying power is and what your negotiating power is lower. You can get at the better. Yeah. And the thing is now you have to say, okay, if I only want six stations and six stations is okay. If her plan is to grow and she has the budget and she's understanding step by step, there's nothing wrong with that. It's when you go into it in the blind and you don't realize rent's 2, 500, utilities, your taxes, your insurance, you got to crunch all those numbers and you've got six people bringing in 200 a week. People that's the first thing people do. They look at your space and they say, Oh, they're bringing in 2, 000 a week. They're making a lot of money. But they don't know the overhead. Yeah, they don't know the overhead and that is the situation. It's always the overhead. Yeah, that is so fascinating. Love it. I love that little tip of advice. I love when you have those moments like that, that stick with you. And you always know that you can go back to that. So I think that's good advice from dad. I love that. Anything else, Lee, that you think that we should dive into or anything else you feel really called to share? I just, you know what, I started this, I am 58 years old. I've been doing here since I was 18 and I still love it the way I did when I was younger. And I see so many stylists that just, you know, they want to know and I want them to know. And that's why I feel with my experience, you know, not everything is perfect in life. But I think the way I look at things is How do we make it the best? Perfect? We can. Yeah. And continue to make it better every chance. Exactly. I love what you said. I mean, you have all this experience. You've been through this for so long. I know I feel the same way. It just feels right to give that back. Well, you know, I tell you exactly. And I tell people, my story is not to just give you my story, but to see, listen, I made those mistakes. I thought I was going to have to close my salon down three or four times in my life. Yeah, I wanted to sell it and I cried numerous times like what am I doing? This is the first time I can honestly say Something has happened and I think it's growth and life lessons learned and wisdom. And that's why I feel like, you know, I might not have all the answers, but I'm going to have more than the person just starting out. So let me help you. Let me help you and guide you. Well, and even going back to that comment you made about, you can tell in 10 minutes if someone's the right fit and you have the bravery to just say it in the moment, if they are like, there's just something that comes with life experience and doing something again and again and again and again. And now when some, a stylist deals with something that feels so scary, so emotionally charged up in the moment, you're like, I've been through this 15 times. You're good. Breathe. You're going to survive. You're going to get through it. So I would love to know now, out of curiosity, like what is your. Next move. Do you plan to sell the salon one day? I know I hate when people like ask me future questions too, because you never know. And you don't know if you should say something like that that's recorded, but like, where, what do you think is your plan? So I'll be honest with you. I actually have always was like in the back of my mind. Oh my God, what am I doing? What am I doing for the first time? Like probably in the last several years, I would never sell my salon right now. I own my building. just out of curiosity. Yes, I do. Incredible. Yes. And I really realized I have put my My blood, sweat and tears into it. Wow. And there's nobody that will ever make me you know, in the beginning years of booth rental, I would do everything to please everybody. Yeah. To make everything nice. And I know what I bring to the table and I know I'm a very fair person and I have compassion. And if you have a hardship, I will work with you. Yeah. And I know that about me. Mm-Hmm. So I expect the same. And I would, and so now my vision is. To really just coach, maybe do hair a couple of days a week. I love it, but I have, you know, my hand, my shoulder, my belly. Yeah. And I still love it. I wish I could really powerhouse six days a week still. Cause I would. Yeah. But the reality is I love coaching. I love the stylist at my salon. I love my clients and no selling it as not even in the. Amazing. Option of my brain right now. Amazing. That's incredible. And I'm just so grateful that we've connected now because now I even know, you don't be surprised if you get a random voice memo from me one day wanting to pick your brain because there's even been times that I've considered a commercial property and stuff like that. And that's a scary jump to get into too, but eventually you have to start expanding into that portfolio. Yeah. You do have to start expanding, but you have to expand. And you have to have. A plan. You know, I never had a plan. My life was constantly on the whim. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Let's do it. Next opportunity presents itself. Run with it. Yeah. And that's not, and thank God I've had the support of my family to really say, yeah, you could do this. But, you know, it's a lot of work. I've worked my butt off and people think as far as, Working and having your own business. You work, I hate when everyone's, I know we want to work the dream schedule. We want to do all the dream things, but the reality is you have a business to run and you have stylists that you have to still, you have to make time for that business and. You only get what you put into it. So if you give a hundred in life, you will get a hundred back. Yeah. If you only give 10 percent to your business, that's all you're going to get back. Yeah. And, and you have to, you know, so when you go into these big buildings and everything, you have to realize if you're going to invest 50, 000, a hundred thousand, whatever it is, and you have a five year lease, You really don't have a five year lease because 99. 9, you're not going to be out in five year investments too high. I'm going to have to sign again. So you have to think and eventually after so many five year leases, you could have owned the building by that point. Wow. Exactly. So I'm not here to discourage. I'm here to make you think a little bit and just plan a little bit differently. And like I said, everything's negotiable. You can go into these places and say, Hey, listen. Yeah, you know, the market's hot with real estate now. So this is not great negotiating for yeah, you know It's just everyone everything's very high right now. Yeah, people are paying premium prices Definitely more of a seller's market still but that changes and you've seen over the years how that changes i've even just We just sold a house and bought another house and had so much equity in our last house because we bought it right at COVID and it's wild to watch the market fluctuate but you know it's gonna go up, it's gonna come down, it's gonna go up, it's gonna come down and you just roll with it, yeah. And you said the key thing, you bought it right and that goes back to, it's not selling, it's buying. I love that, that's a good note to add on from that. That's where I'm going with it, that's the key to the whole thing. That's amazing. Well, thank you for sharing all of this wisdom. I will link your Instagram, anything. I mean, you can send me anything you want me to link in the show notes. I usually just, everybody, everyone reaches me through Instagram. Yeah, I do private coaching and I would even do some group coaching. It depends if it's a whole salon, I have whole salons that were transitioning from commission to booth rental, and that's not always a good fit either. And I will, you know, that might not be good for you. And I try to show the. Pros and cons to that. So yeah, any way I can help. I'm here. Amazing. So Lee's an open book. I will put all of your information in the show notes. Thank you so much again for reaching out. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you everybody for listening. I am so grateful for all of you and I will talk to you all next week. Bye. Thank you.