032 - New School Leadership in Salons: Insights from Nina Tulio

In this episode of Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations, Lisa Huff chats with Nina Tulio, a salon business success educator, about the shift from fear-based to confidence-driven leadership. Nina shares her journey from salon management to education, offering valuable tips on building a people-first culture and preparing a salon for sale.


-Nina’s Resources:
  - Free resources on Nina’s website: profit calculators, pricing classes.
  - Follow Nina on Instagram @NinaTulio for more insights.


Listen to this episode to learn how to lead with confidence and create a thriving salon culture with insights from Nina Tulio!

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Transcript

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Hello, friends. Welcome back to Stylist Old Tribe Conversations. I am joined today by Nina Tulio. Nina is a salon business success educator. She is on a mission to empower hairstylists and salon owners to rise above the chaos. Nina, how are you doing today? I am beyond excited to be here with you because, well, first of all, I've watched you grow over the past few years. I mean, because I've known you now for a pretty long time in terms of like, Socially, knowing you on social media, and so, and we've been talking about getting together on the podcast for the next, you know, for the last couple months, so I'm really pumped and excited to be here. So thanks for having me. I agree. I am. I'm assuming you remember this, but I'm sure the people listening probably don't know this. It had to have been. Maybe 2017, maybe, I mean, it was a long time ago. I remember you, you interviewed me for your blog. Yes. That's like the one touch point. I think we maybe had a couple Instagram lives where we chatted briefly, but isn't it so funny to just like, from an outside perspective, know what's going on in people's lives for, going on like half a decade at this point. But never, that's what I was telling Nina before I hit record. Like I, I don't. know you personally really at all. So like, I'd love to go from what I do know of you this very, you know, outside perspective, look, get to know you a little bit better. And I'm just really grateful that about time we're making like a pretty, you know, solid connection. Because we have so many, you know, paths that I know have crossed over time and will continue to cross. So I'm just grateful to have a, a format to really sit down and get to know you on a deeper level. Awesome. Yes. Thank you. And I said, listen, whatever you I'm just following your lead. So I am here to just answer all the things. Yeah, I love it. Okay. So I have been having people just kind of tell their story. I'm very curious by nature. I, whatever feels appropriate to you go back, however far feels relevant, start to kind of tell your story. And I apologize in advance. I'm going to interrupt you 15 times, probably I'm going to want to know more. We're going to go off on tangents, but I just really want to get to know you better than I ever have before. Sure. So many moons ago now back when I was a child, right? How long do you really want me to go? No, I'll start from just my, the industry experience. That's what most people do. For sure. It feels relevant. I mean, I think I went to vocational school, you know, I was the first to sign up for my vocation program and I went through there. It was the only. Area in school that I ever got A's because I was not the best student. Okay, and when I graduated I had 250 hours to finish. So I went to Allentown School of Cosmetology and finished those 250 hours as a night student and then from there I ended up working at Circuit City, which is interesting Although Circuit City has been very helpful for me because I was I turned into a manager Circuit City was like a Best Buy It was like the best buy of the day of back in the day. And so I went to Circuit City and did their management training, which was so impactful. And this is when I'm like 20, 21 years old. Okay. So I did that. And then simultaneously I found a cute little salon that I wanted to work for. So I was working part time. And then from there I went on to a chain salon. And I was a hairstylist there, which was really great for me. And then I turned into that from a hairstylist to a manager at the, at the the chain and then was their district manager. So I ran eight salon locations, had 55 employees. And then those two, the owners, then turned, they were obviously my mentors and Robin is still my mentor to this day. So we're going back over 20 years. And my other mentor, Ray, has since passed, but super kind, super smart people, really helped me with everything I know about this business. And From there, you know, working as a district manager, they sold the salons. We end up moving to West Palm Beach, Florida, and we partnered together. So I was a partner in their business. We opened up five salons in one year. One year. You knew you were opening five at one time or it was one, then another, then another. It was, it was kind of like one, but stacking next to next to next. It was a lot. It was a lot. But that was my college education, you know, I really just learned everything about business at that point. And so moved to Florida. And then after that, because at that point, I was already with him for about eight years. And you know what? I wanted to fly and do something on my own. It was just time for me to just be solo. So I moved from West Palm Beach, moved back home to like outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And then I started my own salon. Commissioned salon back in 2006 and started that salon was working behind the chair Obviously at that point and running the business first five years of that business complete shit show Which I talk about a lot got into some really serious debt how to sell my house to keep my salon at that point well that my I was the little squirrel in me was starting to get distracted and want to Interrupt, but I don't want to spend too much time on these. So you went from Florida back to Pennsylvania and you had no clients. How'd you go straight to opening a salon? Mm hmm. It was tough. It was, there was a six month gap in between, but I'm, or since I was originally from there, you know, I had friends, family, and I had people, but listen, that's why the first five years of my business was going to say, hindsight in 2020, would you not have coached past Nina to do that? Or you still feel like that was the right move? I think it was the right move for me, but it was very hard and it caused a lot of debt, but I also made horrible financial decisions, too. I'm sure it was part of your learning curve, yeah. If you don't have a strong marketing strategy and tactic, it's very hard to open with completely no one. Yeah, but it can work, right? And it did work. It just, I had to go through the trench in order for me to get out on the other side of that. So, you know, after I had my business, I got out of the mess of five years, moved from a maybe 600 square foot location to probably a 1600 square foot location during the height of the recession. I was already broke at that time. So I took a really big risk moving locations, doubling my rent. But I had to, yeah, I had to, because I was in a very residential area. And I knew we didn't have any room to expand our services. And I knew that if I stayed there, I would close. Yeah, especially with a recession like this. Oh, absolutely. It's just gonna shrink and shrink and shrink, yeah. For sure. So I did. I borrowed 5, 000 from my best friend. I had friends and family help me rehab the spot because I couldn't pay anyone to rehab it. And we moved into that salon business. That salon location, and then that was year five was when the business turned around. So from there, it was kind of like looking at myself, taking full accountability and responsibility for the mistakes that I made in my business, and then start making good decisions, dialing in my brand, dialing in my quality. core values, my culture, my mission, and then hitting it hard in the networking circuit. I was like Waldo. I was out everywhere. I joined the Chamber of Commerce. I became a member of their Women's Business Council. I was the VP of Programs. I made connections. That was my thing. I love doing that. And then from there. I knew always that I didn't, I didn't want to be behind the chair and I wanted to do education full time. That was always in the back of my mind, how to keep my salon a little bit longer than I wanted to. But at year 11 is when I sold it and it was a two year process. It was about a two year exit strategy. And then in 2016 I ended up selling the business and converting to what I'm doing now. Our industry, it's hard to sell a business. Do you mind telling me a little bit more? And I'm sorry if you've repeated yourself cause you've said that a million times, but I don't know that story. Okay. It's a struggle. Let me tell you, it's so hard to sell. I feel like I typically would not coach someone to buying an existing salon, you know, like I feel like our industry specifically, it's just like people have free will, like what a client list, like I feel like our industry is just very unique in that way. So yeah, how did you pull that off? Well, it's kind of like, what are you buying and what are you selling? You know, those are the, yeah, correct. That's kind of what we're asking. And furniture depreciates, right? So, you know, like normal businesses, you couldn't really use the calculation of what it would be to ask for a business or evaluation because we are typically the face of our business. So if I clients come for you, exactly, but that's why it was two years for me. It was a two year process because I positioned myself away from behind the chair. I gave my clients to my team. And I worked behind the scenes to, I was still the face of my business, but it didn't need to function. It could function without me being behind the chair is what I'm saying. It could still be profitable. So did you find the buyer before that two year process started? You guys, no, you were just new in, you knew that's what you wanted to do and you wanted to set yourself up into a good position to do that. Yes, and listen, it's all about positioning. You have to be able to position yourself for the best buy and so there will be people out there that want to buy a business, but the price has to be right. The brand has to be. I mean, my business because people ask me this all the time. Well, you must have sold because you were struggling. I said, absolutely not. I sold because I was a business. Thriving. I mean, that's the only way you could successfully sell a salon. If not, you're selling old shampoo bowls. That's all you're really selling. Yeah. I mean, my business was 17 to 23 percent profitable for years and years and years. It was growing 20 to 30 percent year over year since year six. So I had that. credibility behind me to do that. That's why I sold it. And plus I was tired to be 100 percent honest. I tell you, I was, you want a different lifestyle. I mean, being an educator and being a salon owner are two, 1 trillion percent different career paths. Your day to day looks completely different. I mean, the finances look completely different. It's you, you knew you wanted that. So you said you knew you. Always wanted to go into education. I mean, you're saying like from day one, like when you opened the salon, you knew one day you'd sell it or when did that? Oh, for sure. Well, here's the thing. My mentors owned over 200 hair salons, so I learned from them and they would always say every day they'd say, do not become ball and chain to the chair and make sure that you have a plan in place so you can sell this business when you're ready because your strengths are not Behind the chair, your strengths are growing people. They ingrained that in my soul. So I already knew when I started, I wanted to sell by year five. That didn't happen because I couldn't get my financial shit together there. Oh, that's why you're 11 is when the time was right for me. But I think, you know, yes. Can you sell a service based business? You absolutely can, but there is a lot of positioning. There is a lot of. Rep work that has to go into it, and I did find my buyer, but you know, it's not easy these days to find a buyer for a salon. How many stylists did you have when the business sold? Six. Okay, and they all stuck with the new owner? They did. There are some things that I can't talk about just because we have, yeah, NDAs in place. But yes, yes, they did. Yes. Okay. Wow, that's fascinating. Then how'd you find the buyer? It was kind of like cold calling. Okay, wow. Hey I know someone that's selling a business. Someone, would you be interested in knowing like someone's, are you interested? And here's the, you know, profit margins. Here's the, so yeah, if somebody is in a space of trying to grow their investments and raise the person that you sold it to in the industry at all or no. Yes, they were. But here's the thing before you ever give any information away, you absolutely have to sign. They have to sign an NDA. Like, do not give any information. Like, I didn't give any of my information. I just said, I know someone's selling a business. Are you interested? Yes. Can you tell me a little bit more? Well, it's in Allentown. It has six stylists. It's about 1600 square feet. But if you want to know more, then you're going to have to have my attorney send you an NDA. And then we can talk. So do not share any of your personal and business finances until that person that's interested signs an NDA. Wow. That's super important. This is fascinating. I don't know if I've ever talked to anyone who has sold a salon super successfully. Again, I think it does come down to the assets. How much is everything worth in there? Sure. But a lot of people want to rebrand anyway when they move. So I'm really glad you went there. That's, that's very interesting. So if somebody's listening to this, they own a salon, maybe they're in your year four, maybe they're in your year 10, who knows what their situation is. What would you say if you just kind of planted the seed to them? They're like, Oh, I actually could sell this one day. What would you say to somebody in that, position. Well, the things that you have to really think about are sales. So you have to focus on having a good amount of sales and consistent sales. You have to focus on a solid profit margin. And as a commission salon owner, a solid what I work and coach to is 20 percent profit. And not that anything less than that is bad. Believe me, the average commission salon owner makes 8 percent profit in the United States. So you have to make sure that you have. Tax returns for two years that you have consistency of growth, sales and profit for at least two years and that you have solid systems in place. So when someone is interested in buying, they're looking for strong team. They're looking for solid systems. They're looking for a good brand. Did you have management in place when you sold it? No, I was just, yeah, they took in on that role. Yes. Wow. Yeah. For me. No, for me, I think it was just that the positioning that I work toward, you know, I was the face of the business, but my team was cranking. I mean, they were, I love my team to this day. I ride with my team. I'm close with them. I love them. They know I'd do anything for them. Yeah. And so I wanted to set them up to where they felt comfortable and so I could have them be making bank. Well, now I took a hit on my profit, to be honest, when you do that and you shift and you get away from behind the chair, your profit margin is going to sink. But you also knew that that's where you were going. Yeah. Correct. But you know, you can explain that to your buyer because they're going to see how the profit margin shifted because I'm no longer behind the chair, but you're getting a little bit more stability knowing that if they bought it, if I was doing my. business behind the chair. You know, I was doing, you know, back in 2014, 2015 at the height, I was, of course, well over six figures just in my services. And our average ticket was, you know, on the, not, it's not low, but it was on the lower. We're not, it's not like this was some crazy extension specialty. Yeah. So yeah, I think that you have to position yourself well, and you have to know your numbers and the finances have to be in order hands down. Yeah. Love that. That's incredible. And I, I love that you said it was a two year plan. Like you knew, okay, we're getting close. We're kind of hitting that. Let's start shifting things so that I can seamlessly step away from this. That's fascinating. Okay. So then you go all in, on education. What did that look like? From what year did you say that was? 20? Tough. So 20 started Education in 2017. Okay. And you know, you mentioned that the salon, owning a salon is different than being an educator. And listen, I want to say this loud and clear because I feel like a lot of people want to become educators. They just don't understand how much hard work goes into it. I have the flu. I would say the first five years of this education platform, I almost worked as hard or harder than being a salon owner. Because here's the thing, growing an education business, growing a salon business, growing a restaurant, any business you invest in, it's going to take a lot of time, energy, and money. And so there were days, you know, in three, year three, Ish year four where I was like, Oh my God, like I'm cranking. I'm working 60 hours a week, but it's different because I wasn't managing a team. When you lead a team of people, now you have an extra layer of responsibility. I have a team with me. They're all independent contractors. I don't have anyone W2 on my team. So it's a different kind of movement. You know, my team came first. Everything was about my team. Always people first. And you're, if you want to commission business to thrive, you got to put your people first. Period. It's a servant style type of leadership. And that's how I lead today. That's what I talk about. That's how I love them. And so I think you kind of have to understand if you want to go in education, it is not going to be this like residual income type. I can sit back and, you know, just like chill and have some rose. Like, no, you're going to be grinding it out. Yeah, or you could do that. You just won't make any sales, which goes for any business. You know, I think a lot of people do to that. Here's this thing. They think once they put this baby out to the world that every, if you build it, they will come and then nothing happens. And those, you know, like you and I and a lot of other people that have really put in the work for years and years, you realize This is intense. It's still intense. It's going to stay intense. I know it is, but hopefully you have that, that drive behind you enough that it's, you know, that's where you're supposed to be, you know, that's what you're supposed to be doing. So you went into education. Obviously that can take so many different formats. What are your, What is like your life right now? What is your, I know you have a podcast. I know you have courses. I'm not sure if you have memberships. What does Nina Tulio even offer right now? And what's your like week look like right now? I mean, my week looks a lot like it's a lot of creating content. It's a lot of creating video. It's a lot of creating, you know, cap writing captions. It's also creating a lot of blogs. Poaching one on one. I do a lot of that. Although I, I've, you know, kind of scaled back a little bit on that. But yes, I have courses. So I have a course for, you know, independence called make that money just focuses purely on pricing and profit. So increasing revenue, increasing profit dialing pricing price per minute, price per hour. And then I have a course that's live once a month where we meet like a mastermind and that synergy. And but you know, honestly, my focus this year and last year was really heavily on my in person education, my speaking engagements and really growing that part of my business, which I. Absolutely love that's that's where I've been living. I'm on the planes. I live on planes. That's right And I have a soul tribe member who it was her very first soul tribe call She came on she was at one of your classes and she had to step away and she said that she said that to get On the call and I was like, that's so funny because I just got an email from nina like a month ago And i'm gonna have her on the podcast and I have been hearing nothing but amazing things So what are the in person classes look like? I just Selfishly want to know and I'm not even trying to sell you right now. I just want to know what they consist of. Thank you. I do remember someone stepping away. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yes. I'm like do your thing like go Absolutely, go ahead. Yeah, those that class was a hands on business class. So they bring their ipads class She had nothing but great things to say about it. Oh good. I'm and that was so such a great group of people so kind but yeah with the hands on classes, they bring their ipad. They bring their computer They prep work so they get all their finances together before they come in, and we do the budget worksheet individually for their business, and we do their price per minute, price per hour individually for their business. And that's one style of independent, I'm sorry, that's one style of education that is hands on, that is typically for less than 25 people. I can't manage that more than that because it's so hands on that I have to be present. And then we have the bigger events where it's working with and working with their distributors and Doing events where it is all business education, but could be a collaboration with other artists or it's hero, you know, for masters of Balayage, which thankfully I'm so grateful. I've been asked back a third time for mob. Love Ryan, love what they're doing. And so then it's those. Classes, which could be six, seven, 800 people. So it really varies, but I just love meeting people in person. I love hugging people. I love getting energy. I love watching people have shifts in front of my eyes. There's nothing like that just moves my entire soul. And I'm sure you can relate to that, you know, Yeah, and I know you said you had six stylists and that is very special to and growing people in that very intimate way, but there it is a different experience. And even I compare, I never owned a salon in between, you know, going from behind the chair to mostly sold tribe. But like, it was almost like in the beginning, the rush with the client, it was like, Oh my God, this is addicting. I love this. It's so exciting. Then after a while, it started to kind of fade and I needed that next kind of rush, that next excitement. And so I totally understand what you're saying in person, especially when we've been doing digital for so long, there is just absolutely nothing like getting in person with people and seeing transformation take place. That's incredible. Okay. So Nina, like totally as our stuff together, your, you know, media kit, everything you sent me. And so she gave me a few talking points and ideas of directions we could go. And one that stood out to me. That I feel like I've had this conversation lots behind the scenes, but I definitely have never had it on the podcast. So I'm excited to go there is new school versus old school leadership. She put that as like one of her, you know, things that she can go on and on and on about. And so I'd love to hear your take on that and what that means to you. And then we'll go from there. Well, here's the thing with new, new school, old school. I've been talking about this for a while, because listen, our industry has shifted since 2020 big time and the world has, and, but particular to our industry, things have changed significantly. And when I, you know, I've been in this business for 27 years. So going back to the old school mindset, a couple of things that come to mind to me is a, the way that we're leading. Because a lot of old school, not everyone, but a lot of old school lead from a space of fear and the new school mindset is leading from a space of confidence. So the more dialed in you are on your brand, your core values, your mission, your beliefs, your culture, what you stand for, right? Give me some examples of leading by fear because I know there's gonna be salon owners listening to this and they hear that and they just assume that's not me. What are some examples? Oh yeah, no, I'll, I'll, I'll, absolutely we'll go into that. I think with, when you get these things dialed in first, we gotta create the foundation to then allow you to lead more confidently. Because if you don't know who you are, A, everybody looks good, clients and employees. And you are not going to attract the people that you want to have in your business. And then without that, you don't have systems. So when it comes to fear based leadership, I'll give you some examples. Fear based leadership would be, and I'm sure a lot of you can relate to this, that stylists are going to leave. They're going to take my clients. First of all, clients are not owned by anyone. The clients can go wherever they want to go. And. The way that I would handle something in my salon, if someone were to leave, now, there are certain instances where things need to shift, this can be very situational, however, We should be calling the client and giving the client an option. Hey Susie, just want to let you know, and I did this, I had this on a video on a reel that I spoke when I spoke in Dublin for Forrest Hey Susie, Just want to let you know that stylist Kelly is no longer with us. We wish her the best. I just want to let you know that you can stay here with us. We have a plethora of stylists that can take care of you and serve you. Or if you want to go with her, that's okay too. Whatever works best for you is going to be best for us. And if you go with her, we leave the door open. You can come back anytime, right? These are the conversations, but the fear based is, Oh my God, they're going to take my clients. Oh my God, I'm going to train them and they're going to leave. Yep. I'm going to train. Well, guess what? If you don't invest in your stylist, they're going to leave bitter. I would rather have them leave better because being a true leader means mentorship and guidance beyond your salon. So when you, like I would always think to myself with my team, I want to do the work now with my leadership so I can guide them, coach them, love them, nurture them, hold them accountable. So when they leave me. They're better when not one when right? The other thing is the fear based is I'm going to lose my people They're going to leave you you have to but the fear will if you operate from a sphere based space You don't have systems. You don't have standards. You don't have policies. You don't have structure Because you're nervous if you do always on defense. Exactly. If you do them, well, then I'm going to lose my stylist. I'm just giving you some examples of the fear. There's many things we could talk about, but those are the ones that always come to mind. And if you're not investing in your team, your business isn't growing. There's a statistic out there from Inc magazine. If you're not coaching your team at least 40 percent of the time, your business is not growing. So when I talk about, a people first culture. It's a servant style of leadership that means that we put the wants and the needs of the team first. Yeah. And when we focus on that, Then they perform better when they have a brand they can buy into and that they know, love and trust you. They perform better. They engage better and employees that are engaged perform better. So we have to start with the investment of the team. But if we're fearful. We don't ever allow our full selves to shine as leaders. They know that, and then they get frustrated, they get irritated, they feel slighted, and they leave. And your stylist can see that, but honestly, even your clients can see that. When you stay stagnant for too long, and the, What got me here won't get me there. Kind of thought process. Like once you build something really great and you think, okay, now we just gotta maintain this. That's, that's never the case, you know? And that, that's, I, I can think of specific people that I know are struggling with this currently that are, are in my world. So can I ask you, I don't know if you have a perfect answer for this or not having the fear, but not leading from the fear are two different things.'cause you're probably going to have the fear. Mm-Hmm. The thought's going to pop into your head, it's going to keep you up at night. When you're crunching numbers, I mean, by human nature, we're always looking to, like, protect ourselves, you know? So, like, how do you tell a salon owner to make that jump from, like, having that fear, and whether it's changing their mind to truly understand it, or just pushing past, even if that's still how you're feeling, here's how you're going to act instead, what would you say to that? Well, here's the thing. Yeah, you're right. I mean, we are going to have fear. Being an owner and being responsible for other people, whether it's one person or 15, it's a very, very scary thing. So the thing that I like to say is the why has to outweigh the fear always. So my why is bigger than my fear. And I have a lot of anxiety that I struggle with. So I have to really lean into my why is bigger than my fear. Why am I here? Why am I doing this? Why am I showing up that will help you understand something to tie it to because yeah, you're going to have days where you can't pay payroll. That shit is scary. There is a fear there, right? However, we have to understand that fear isn't reality. I find that in order to move through fear, we have to take clear and concise action. So. When you have fear and you have fearful thoughts, a lot of times, though, if you have fearful thoughts, what we think is what we feel is what we do. So if you are a fearful person, you're going to lead from fear on that, you know, so we have to, yes, they're separate, but we have to get the leadership under control and your identity about, yeah. Yeah. And this is where the foundation comes in knowing who you are, who you serve, how you're going to serve them better than anyone else. That's clients and team. Yeah. dropping the ego, you know, making sure that you're not leading from a space of ego because that will attract people who also have ego and understanding who you are as a brand. Like these are just foundational things that when I got more in tune with who I was as a brand, it allowed me to dial in the stylist that I wanted to spend time with. So what I suggest is Have the fear, feel the fear, right? But you have to have a clear plan of action on the direction of your business, understanding that you have to pivot your business. So we never changed the goal. We changed the approach and understanding that fear means the why is bigger. So I'm going to do it anyway. Here's my biggest piece of advice. Step outside this beauty industry and get leadership training. Now, of course I coach and teach to a lot of leadership. It's in all of my courses and I teach to. Not all my courses, just my synergy course. I teach to be servant style leader. However, go on masterclass. I follow a lot of athletic coaches. That's where I live for learning. Live on masterclass, go take Simon Sinek classes, read Simon Sinek's books, go into Tony Robbins, learn from Marcus Limonis, people who are running businesses, whatever calls to you. Yeah. Yeah. You have to find those are just some of my tops, but I think it's getting out of the beauty industry and learning leadership. Disney has courses on leadership. Like there's so many things that you can do, but first you have to be in tune and in touch with your why and know that you're free. Your fear always has to outweigh, I'm sorry, the why always has to outweigh that fear. I want to sit at that why for a little bit because I do also feel like, I think it's inside of all of us, but there has even been times where I've said like, what is your why to people? Or like, tell me more, let's get a little bit deeper. And I can tell their brain is still sitting on the surface and they're like, well obviously I want to make more money. I want to be able to retire one day. You have to get to that next layer of why that is so beyond you. That's more legacy. That's leaving a bigger impact on the world. And it's sometimes it's hard to get people to go down to that level. So I would say if you are, you know, feeling if anything Nina is saying about this. Fear based leadership. If you're like, shoot, I am in that. And then she's saying, oh, yeah, your why has to be deeper and you're like, hmm, I don't really know what my why is. Or some people are like, my why is my children. Like, they're always why I'm doing this. Deeper than that. Like bigger, because if the why is still always you, I feel like sometimes when the numbers aren't working or something like that, it's not deep enough. It has to be completely, I think, selfless. There has to be a layer of why that is completely selfless. Absolutely. It keeps you hanging in during those really hard times. One million percent. And I think it is that deeper sense of like, yes, but listen, your children can absolutely be your why. But why is it your children? What is it about them that makes you, you know, Show up every day. What is it about their future that makes you show up every day? What is it about your finances that makes you show up every day? Absolutely. You know, your children can be your why this is very personal to everyone. And I think the deeper sense is I'll just from my point of view is for me, it's about impact. Yeah. What kind of impact can I make on someone small or large? Doesn't matter to me, but If I'm getting on a plane and I've had severe anxiety with, with flying, I always have to think to myself, I'm hoping that I get to change someone today. Yeah. I'm hoping that someone can see their value today. I'm hoping that someone understands that they aren't alone. Are super talented and that they have been selling them short and we can have a shift today. So maybe asking yourselves those deeper questions if it's your children ask yourself those deep like what is the impact look like? What is the the value look like that you're providing to your children? And what does that mean in terms of long term and legacy? I love how you broke it down because it does have to be so much deeper And you know what guys? Typically, when we become burned out, it's because we've become disconnected from that why. So sometimes we have to remove ourselves a little bit and come back and listen, I've made 10, 472 million mistakes in my business now and in my leadership. Salon owner role. And I think we have to understand that we're resilient. We are very resilient souls in this industry. And resiliency doesn't mean constant going. Sometimes it means taking a pause. And so sometimes it's good to take a step back and say, Hey, Why am I really doing this? Like, what does this mean for me? Because it may mean something different than it did five years ago. Totally. Maybe you're due for a shift or something is meant to change. And that's why, obviously, the children and things like that, like, I hear so many people say that, and I get that. Obviously, my husband, my children, those are my why's too. But if you're going to be in a leadership role, I think there needs to be a why that exists of the people that are, that you're leading. Oh, absolutely. It's so hard to be, like, showing up every day how you need to like you're saying that with the example of, you know, our, our stylist left. So we're gonna, you know, serve her really well and freely give all of that. Like it has to come from that place of really, really wanting the best for people. What would you say? I'm just gonna ask this because this has been an example of someone in my inner circle recently that has dealt with something like this. What would be your tip of advice knowing that this, you know, Not coming from a fear place, but coming from a growth place, if someone had a stylist leave on really, really, really nasty terms, like this, like, they probably should have let him go long before it got to the point where it got really yucky and really bad. What would be some advice for to keep that because it's they so bad in that position want to be like no screw them blah blah blah You know, like how do you stay in that even when people get bad and not right? That's well, I'll speak from experience because I've lived it and I get it and I feel for the people Yeah, it's very hard to be a business owner It's very hard to be vulnerable and put yourself out there because that's what you're doing every day. You're saying, trust me, look at me, I'm gonna, I'm here for you, I'm supporting you, I'm, I'm opening, opening up my business to you, my home to you in a sense, and I'm doing all the things, right? And when things go south, it's hard to take the high road. It's so hard. But I think that pause is necessary. So don't react. Pause is very and I'm just reliving the moment that I had with one of my stylists and I'm thinking of the steps that I had to take and first what I think you have to do is reassess why it happened. And this is the hard part because we, you know, we're not going to go out here bad mouthing people, running our mouths, doing, going on social, like we're just not, that's just not who we are. Right. So we have to, we internalize that. So you, I do believe it's important to talk to someone that you can trust so you can get it out. Cause it is very traumatic. It's a very traumatic experience. So talk to someone you trust to let it out. The other side of this is. the accountability and, and self reflection. Because with everything that happens in business, it is a life lesson. And so, what I'm hearing what you said about your person is, we kept them too long, which I've been there. So I can, I'll give you my example. It's like, yeah, I've done that. What can we do so that doesn't happen again? Right? What shifts can I make in my own leadership that I can actually listen to my gut and know that I'm probably doing a disservice by keeping them? So, yes, does it stink? But you also have to take accountability for what happened and why it went on so long. And the next time it will be shorter. Next time you'll listen to your gut. Next time you'll pay attention. But in terms of. The healing of all of it, because there is healing that has to happen because there's a lot of hurt there, it's the time, the time will heal it, but it also is, and this was very helpful for me, is I went 1, 000% In all my business, like if we're going to have a breakup and then you're going to go better. Yeah, I'm going to dial in that. It's almost like the post breakup glow up. Right? Yeah, exactly. Yes. Like I'm going to and that's what I did. And I dialed in my team and we did it together and look, you know, we're not going to lean on them for support because it's not their problem. But you. They need to know that you're okay, that you're going to continue to support them. And so go harder on the thing that you're trying to grow and also take care of self. Make sure that you are healing you and you are talking about it and you are sharing with people you trust in the appropriate formats. Yeah, yeah. We're not loving that. You said that. Because being an owner can, I mean, I don't know from experience, but from how many owners I get to speak to, it can be so lonely and isolating. And sometimes, you know, in an emotional state when people act the wrong way or do things that they probably didn't think all the way through. I love that you said, you have to process this. You just don't need to process it publicly and you don't need to process it with that stylist that left. You know, you need to do that quietly on your own. And that's a you thing. And I love turning any her in pain into how can this fuel me and make a lasting impact beyond this to make me better? What can I learn from this? And quadruple down on that so that I'll never be in this situation again. Yeah, or it will make you better. It will make you, it will make you stronger for sure. I just, I feel for people who go through it, you know, and it, it is a very trying time, but, and man, you got to bite your tongue. Cause they're who I think of things sometimes. And I look back and I'm like, I don't know how I kept my mouth shut because I'm a very direct person. But the other thing that I want you to understand is that when you're an owner, you're not only speaking for you, you're speaking for your whole brand. Which means that you're speaking for the other team members. So if you come out of pocket and you start talking out of the side of your mouth on social, it's a reflection on them. So again, the why has to be bigger. And for me with my salon, it was my team. They were always my why, they were why I showed up. So I didn't want to disappoint them. And keeping the person Actually disappointed them. So I already disappointed them. So here's the other side of it too. I think that we have to have a sense of humility and, and humbleness that comes when we screw up in our businesses. And for me, I disappointed them by keeping this person too long. And I didn't listen to them when they told me things and I apologized for that. And I sat them down and I took ownership for that. You have to, because they start to lose. Trust in you and but when you say, hey, I screwed up. I'm sorry. I disappointed you and I promise you that I'm not doing that shit again because I so in that situation is that a drop everything all hands on deck meeting like in an owner just be in a vulnerable space because that's the thing you want to like. As an owner, you want to like not draw attention to it. And sometimes you're like, Oh, I just won't say anything to the other girls, but like they know what's happening. There's conversation happening behind the scenes. I love that you just said, when things get rocky, you learn a hard lesson. It's going to be the hardest time to shine a light on you and say, here's, but the, the trust that that will give someone of like the humility that you can take ownership of that and speak it out loud, the culture that that will create, I think is. Genius. I love that. Well, sure. You have just got to be vulnerable, you know, and honest. And I think you don't have to air all the things, but you've got to own your part in it. And that was my, my part was I screwed up. I kept her too long. Like, why would I do that? That that's shame on me, you know, but I can promise you that that won't happen again. And I can promise you, I'm going to go. Harder for my business now than I ever have. And I'm hoping that you'll come along with me, you know, that was kind of the conversation and open up an invitation again for what else are you guys thinking? What else are you guys feeling now that we've heard this? It's almost like in a relationship, like, or a friendship. Once you go through hard things together, it just like solidifies the bond even better. And I think owners can totally lean into that because you're going to go through it. Yes. And I think individual conversations are important, too. There's a time and a place for the team meeting. But then on the back end, like, How did this affect you? Tell me about it, because I want to know, so we don't ever have to visit this shit again, like, on me, on my bad, you know? So, yeah, I think it's important to do individual conversations, too. I love that. Another thing I had wrote and written down, and I feel like we've touched on, Totally touched on this people first culture, but I would love for you to just put that in your own words, like what that what exactly it is that means and any owner a leader in any way, shape or form, or even any stylist that knows they may want to be in a culture like this. What does the people first culture mean to you and and what are some ways that people can start to bring that into their. Businesses. So when it comes to creating a people first culture, you know, I think when people think of a people first culture or a servant style leader, they think that the team gets to do whatever they want. They get to create all the boundaries, they get to do all the things. And that's not actually, it's not what it is. When we create a people first culture, we coach. and we guide based on the goals and the dreams of the team. So if you, let's, I'll use an example. So if you were on my team, we would have monthly coaching sessions that would dial in your goals of buying a new house or a new car or being an educator or getting out of debt. I mean, I used to help my team get out of debt. I'm no financial advisor here, but I learned from being broke and going into debt and then having to get out on my own that I can share things with them. And I would. Ask you, okay, Lisa, what do you want to do outside of this inside, outside of this industry, outside of numbers every single day? What are you looking to do and grow? You know, if you want to buy a house, okay, perfect. If you want to be an educator, perfect. Now I know that every time I coach you and work with you every month, every single conversation that I have with you is going to be wrapped around the house or your education. So when we're creating a people first. Platform and people first culture. It is knowing that if I work with them and coach them on their goals and dreams They have a bigger why and purpose to show up because they're working toward their their goals and dreams. They're not working toward mine I think what happens in in the ownership space is let's talk about numbers. Let's talk about you know, pre booking Let's talk about retention. These are all important things, but When you do that time and time again, and you don't include their own goals and dreams, they get the sense that they're just working to help you grow your business. And they're not getting anything out of it. So another example of creating a people first culture is really making sure that inclusivity exists. Conversations exist. Listening exists. Their thoughts and ideas coming to you with those exist. more than just coaching sessions. It's like, Hey, let's have a little session where we bounce ideas off of each other. It doesn't mean that you're going to do all the things, but they need to know that they're involved and included. And if they ever have a thought or anything like that, there's always an open invitation for it to be received. Yeah, absolutely. And, and the other thing with people first culture is to really focus on creating a safe. Fun environment. And it has to be fun. They have to be, you know, doing their work, right? We're all, we all have a job to do, but how can we make it fun? How can we make it where they want to come here and they want to spend time here and we're going to laugh and we're going to joke and we're going to support each other. And the safety side of it is also so important when we're creating people first because that's why when I coach and teach. My owners, we create actionable core value statements. They're just not value statements. There's action behind them. So if one of those is respect, that's maybe one of their core values. It's not just we promise to be respectful of each other. No, we promise to be respectful by listening, being open, and being honest in our conversations and understanding that, you know, it's that kind of thing. It doesn't have to be ten paragraphs, but you Typically, we create four or five actionable core value statements. That's what people first means. It means that their goals and their dreams come first. And when you do that, guess what happens? Your business grows. You make more money, they make more money, and everybody's happy. Has the ripple effect. Absolutely. I don't know if you mostly speak to commission owners. Would you say that this goes as well to booth rental salon owners? Like where, where would you obviously an employee is different, but are you thinking that for somebody listening to this, if they have renters versus commission, should they be having these conversations on the Same at the same same kind of time frame or do you feel like that's completely separate and completely different because it is really tricky to integrate that culture into a booth rental position. I don't know if you coach a lot to that or not. It's very different. I coach. Yes, I coach a lot of commission and hybrid salon owners, but I work with a lot of independents. When you're a booth rental owner. You're a landlord. You have a very hands off approach to the way you're running their business because they are running their own business under your brand. So can you include people and can you cheer them on and can you guide them? Of course, we want them to be successful, but we blur the lines where we're like, Hey, we're having team meetings and yes, these are our core values and make sure you show up. That's a, that's a w two commission based model. However, when you are bringing on renters, you still want to make sure that you are interviewing them and that they fit the brand and culture and the culture, because you're still going to have a brand and culture as a rental owner that's created by you. Right. You, but you're, you have to, I mean, hiring, not hiring, but interviewing a renter is a similar process to interviewing a w two. You want to take your time and doing that. But in terms of like, Having these coaching sessions and in terms of like making sure that they're following action statements and all of that, that's typically not happening. Rental owners, cause it's more w two, but we still want the renters to feel like they're supported and they're being cheered for. So in a hybrid model, would you almost say that's like a perk of staying an employee as you get that high touch coaching? Yeah. And I think having that in your system. space. If you do have both coming from a fear spot. I know a lot of owners are fearful for their stylists to eventually want to go rental and sure kind of commission. I think that's another layer of value that you bring by keeping them in that role. And if they're really ready to spread their wings and fly. Why? Like you said, they have to fit the culture. You can't, it would be a total energy suck if somebody came in and didn't fit that. But I think it is good to, to differentiate those because I do think those lines can get blurry and I, I don't think it should be totally polar opposites or else you're going to end up with some not good fits as rental. So as you were saying that I was wondering, you know, people that are listening to this, who should really be jumping and taking action on that? When it comes to really going people first, and I think it is still good to know even in a rental situation, not so much from like a coaching, but from a, what are you, what is this that you're working towards and making sure that fits in the culture? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But also in a rental owner, you could have assistance. You could have receptionists. And that culture needs to be dialed in. Those are hourly employees and they need to be put first. And so we're still working with them. We're still coaching them. We're still guiding them. And, you know, I just wrote a blog about the hybrid model. And if it's for you, and I wrote it about pros and cons for both you know, hybrid or, you know, staying at commission or having a hybrid model. And I think that I don't necessarily, and I've switched people over from commission to hybrid, but my model is different because I'm not suggesting bring in renters, bring in commission. I'm suggesting that if you are commissioned, we create a system and a success path. So when they're ready to go, someone's really craving independent. No, we don't have a glass. Yeah. We go over the numbers, we go over everything, taxes, so they know exactly what they're getting into because we want them to be successful renters in our space. Yeah. I love that. I think that's so important. Okay. I feel like we could go on and on and on and I'm so tempted to like, ask another question but we're getting, we're getting close on time so we can go ahead and wrap it up. Anything that I should include in the show notes, any final thoughts, anything else you want to share today, Nina? I think that first, thank you so much for having me. And thanks so much to everyone that's listening. I think, you know, check out my Instagram because I live there. It's just at Nina Tulio. And I have so many free resources. I have resources for the commission salon owner. I have downloads that will help you in terms of like, you know, A success guide. You'd want something like that. I live in the lane of profit and pricing, so I have profit calculators for free on my website. I have pricing classes for free. Like, there's so much that you can get from my website that is of value. And if you want to take things deeper, then you can check out my Make That Money course if you're independent, and you can check out Synergy if you're commissioned. But yeah, that's it. Feel free to say hi on IG. I, I answer all of my DMs. I'm very accessible and I want to make sure that you know that I am here to serve you. So please, if you have questions, feel free to slide into my DMs at any time. I love that so much. And thank you so much for coming on. I'm glad we could see you. Finally make this happen. And, and who knows, maybe this is the first of, of many, maybe we'll have more time because I feel like we could do, we could do quite a bit more. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you again, Nina, and I will talk to you all next week. Bye.