Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations
029 - Tawny Palm: Salon Success and Strategic Sabbaticals
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Connect with Lisa Huff
- Instagram: @tawnynicolehairdesigns
- Instagram: @lisahuffhair
- Stylist Soul Tribe: @stylistsoultribe
- Email: stylistsoultribe@gmail.com
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Connect with Lisa Huff
Welcome to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff. Over the last five years, I've coached hundreds of hairstylists and beauty industry professionals, helping them work their dream schedules exclusively with their dream clientele and earn their dream income. income, all while fostering genuine connections and lifelong friendships inside the beauty industry. And this podcast, we dive deep into abundance, manifestation, business building strategies, and creating a life that you are truly proud of both behind the chair and at home. Are you ready to embark on a journey of personal growth, success, and sisterhood, then hit that subscribe button now and get ready to experience the pure magic of Silas Old Tribe Conversations. Hello, friends. Welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I am here with a special guest, Tawni Palm. Tawni is an extension and blonding specialist in Colorado Springs, Colorado, who has over tripled her income over the last three years behind the chair. She's one of the most inspiring members of Stylist Soul Tribe and has crafted a business that allows her to take multiple months off each year to travel the world with her husband. She just started a podcast of her own called Radiant Resilience, which we just recorded an episode on her podcast yesterday. where I opened up big time and I'm still experiencing a bit of a vulnerability hangover from so Tawny, sweet friend, thank you so much for being here. How are you doing? I'm good. It's so nice to be here, finally. I feel like we had to reschedule this a couple times, so. We did, but I also believe that, like, the timing happens for a reason, and, like, it's supposed to, we were, we're recording when we're supposed to. So I'm really excited. I'm really grateful to have you here. So obviously we talked a little bit before we hit record. I would love, I'm amazed by you. I've, I've known you. I've been in your corner for, you know, a few years now. I'm amazed at the growth that you've seen. So let's kind of start there. I would love to hear a bit of your story. What you think some of those, you know, factors are that, that has helped you see the growth that you've seen. All right. Well, do you want me to go back to like beginning of hair days? I mean you can if that feels good. I just know we have a lot of, a lot of ground to cover. So yeah, definitely tell us like how you got into it and then specifically these huge numbers you've seen these last three years. Yeah, so I, Went to beauty school while I was in high school during my senior year of high school and and then went straight into doing hair. Yeah. Right after that I worked at a commission salon in Castle Rock, Colorado is where I grew up. And so I started working there and it was a summit salon. Mm hmm. I think they're still called summit. I think so. I know there's one in my town like that. Yeah. So she was like a Redken and Pureology salon that we did commission and it was the levels and all that stuff. And I worked there for quite a while and then started traveling with my husband. And we can touch on that a little bit more later, but I started traveling with my husband. So I quit. And then while I was on one of my trips, she was like, when are you going to come back and work for me? Because I had come back in between. So you would just like quit when you go on these long trips because the salon wouldn't allow you to take off that much time and still keep your job. I did initially. Yeah. Well, our, our very first trip was five months long, so that was a little bit harder to quit for that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then I also lived in Australia for a year and I worked in Alaska for a year. So, you know, these things that we were doing that required you to quit. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So at one point she was like, are you going to, when are you going to come back and work for me? We had a conversation about. I wanna keep traveling. How can we make that work? We made it work. And then I was there for, well, since till 2013. 20 20 14. 2014, okay. Yeah. And then I decided I was gonna go booth rental, have a little bit more freedom also, slightly. How many years into your career was that? Oh, so if that was 2014, then I am almost 10 years. So nine years. Decided to go booth rental and have a little bit more freedom. I was a little bit afraid because, you know, booth rental and traveling and all that. And, Yeah. I realized when I went booth rental, how sheltered of a life I was living in the commission world. Yeah. And especially in the summit salon world, not that it's good or bad or anything like that. A lot of people say that like a beta salons as well. It is a, it is its own world. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I, and there were a couple of times that I tried to promote some outside classes that were outside of the commission. The Redkins summit, all of that stuff and the flyers would be taken down at the salon and stuff like that. So I was just like, Oh my gosh. So when I went booth rental, I, I, I like, I realized this entire new world of products of classes. I even helped a little bit on Denver fashion week for a couple of years in a row. Wow. I just like really dove into it and learned so much. So much in that timeframe. However, all of that was hair related. Not much of it was business related. I was just kind of rolling with the punches as far as business goes. And then fast forward to 2020 COVID, we all shut down for, we were shut down for about six weeks, so not as bad as a lot of other people. But still terrifying because we didn't know how long we all thought was two weeks when we first left. So yeah, it was scary. Yeah. Yeah. So I was feeling pretty useless. My husband and I owned a restaurant as well. And he was working that and I, you know, we had to cut back on all our staff too. So I wasn't really working there. And so I was feeling pretty bored and useless. So I decided to, I don't know, I think Brit Siva's. started popping up randomly on my Instagram, on my Facebook. And I started listening to her podcast and I started, I think she did a free course in that time period. It was like a free week long and I got completely hooked. And so I dove into Thriver Society and Because I had the time off, which was really great for early stages of Thrivers Society. If anybody's ever done that program there's a lot to get it started. A master's degree. There's a lot of content in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to reevaluate all of my branding. My original business name when I went booth rental was sheer elegance. Okay. And play on words, sheer S H E A R. Yeah. We've all seen it. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's still my legal business name, but I realized when doing Thriver Society that I didn't want to specialize in haircuts. Yeah. So I was like, well, this totally just tells everyone I do haircuts and you like, don't like doing haircuts at all. So that's really not what you were trying to portray. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can do haircuts obviously, but they're definitely not top of the list. Favorite thing. Yeah. So dove into thriver society, started niching down, specializing and implementing a lot of her Teachings. Processes and teachings and, and then that opened up a whole new world of people too, because even just the people from my 2020 class had started doing their own coaching programs too. So I think I came across you and I came across Hunter and Angie and all of these other people that were teaching similar ish things to Thrivers, but in a different way too. Yeah, our own little take on it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so I jumped into Hunter's. PVP and then, you know, jumped into Soul Tribe and just doing all of those things. I learned so much about the business aspect of, of doing hair, which is not the part we all really want to do. Yeah. But I think you are someone from the outside looking in. One, I think your experience in Soul Tribe, and I think you said this yesterday when we talked to, and I don't even really remember, honestly, onboarding you, I don't really, time is crazy, like, I feel like it's been forever, I feel like it but I think we did start with one on one coaching calls, and I think what makes you, just in my brain, special amongst everyone, is you are someone that continuously does one on one coaching, and you really, really, really take action, Tawny, so like, I know you know that, but I just need to, like, call it out that, and that's why I like to highlight certain members that have really seen immense growth, and just pay attention to what it is about those people, where all the people have kind of consumed the same content, they know the right things to do, but you really, really, really take action. It's been really fascinating watching you. Niching down getting serious about your target market, knowing who it is you want to service and the clients you want to do, having the difficult conversations of letting the clients go. I've helped you through a lot of that and that is not easy. And in just getting really clear and taking action when things need to be done and even still, we all have our moments of panic and freak out, and every once in a while, you'll be like, Lisa, everything's falling apart, and we take a look at your business, and it's like, it's really not, like, you really have such a solid, well oiled machine. I'm so impressed by your business and that's just the, the parts that I really want to try to share with others because a lot of people will just listen and consume, but you really, really, really take action. Yeah. I mean, it's hard. It's not easy to do some of those things, to have those difficult conversations with those difficult clients, to enforce cancellation policies, to, you know, and then, you know, I do a lot of the digital forums and a lot of the, like, you know, when I get a new client, It's all automated and stuff, which I know some people don't like, but I have some clients that have been like, yeah, I'm not going to fill that form out. And I'm like, okay, well then I guess we're not a good fit because that's how I run my business. And, and it's taken a lot of time. Well, and there's also a lot of people in Soul Tribe, and, and everyone, like you said, have their different takes in these forms, and what Tawny's talking about is PvP and is Hunter, so if you guys haven't taken it, I think it's, well, while we're talking, the doors are open. They're not going to be open by the time this podcast drops, but that's where you learned all that. But there are also a lot of people in Soul Tribe who do implement that, and their clients don't love it, and they kind of pull away from it, with good reason. But you Somehow also your marketing is so dialed in that even the clients that don't want to participate in the way you run your business, there's always a steady stream of new ones. And that's not easy for all stylists. And you really have done a good job with that. Whether it's word of mouth, I know you use, you know, Courtney, she's been on the podcast, good Richard media for your social media content. So you've just really, again, if you To me, it feels like a big, well oiled machine. There's this little dial turning over here, there's this thing going, and all the pieces work together and makes it all keep flowing, you know? Yeah. And I know, like, one of the things that's been said about the industry recently is that, you know, if you don't stand out to some degree for experience, guest experience, and things like that, and doing unique things in the salon, and, and stepping up another level, You're going to get left behind here soon because we're getting an influx of all of these people wanting to do it and, you know, and I see it in my own salon as well. I mean, I see the girls who I, we still have girls who are not on social media at all. And I'm like, but it's free marketing. No, I don't love the personal aspect of social media. If I didn't have a business on there, then I definitely would probably be off of it. My husband's been off of social media for like 10 years, but you know, but it's so great. And also, I think I appreciate that a little bit more because my mom, she, her job for forever, cause she's a graphic design artist, was doing newsletters. So she was selling. To businesses to do print advertising while I was growing up. So I have a very good idea of what that costs and what that looks like. And it's so expensive and we are so lucky to have social media as an option. Absolutely. Absolutely. So is that how you would say majority of your clients find you like when they fill out your forms? Is it, is it referrals? Is it Instagram? Is it Google? What is it right now? I would say mostly Google. And Facebook, I think I get a decent amount because of the age range. I think more so of my, of what I go for. So how often are you updating your Google right now? Oh, gosh, I try to keep up with it. I'm kind of bad at the Google part things, but I was actually working recently. Yeah, it is working. That's great. Yeah. I was actually just working with another soldier. I remember about it. Yeah. Like Google ads and stuff like that. And so I'm talking about trying to do that and get your SEO all balanced out and things like that. So I've been working on that to try to get it. Cause I recently looked at where I was when you Google Castle Rock. Yeah. Hair stylists or salons. And it was pretty far down the list, but I do have a lot of reviews on there. Yeah. So yeah, I'm not, I, I always ask people, you know, when they do come in, well, how did you find me? One. So, you know, okay. They say Google. Then like, what made you choose me too, because then Google leads to your website, which is the whole funnel. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even if they say Facebook too, because how many times do you see somebody posting on Facebook? I'm looking for a hairdresser and they get 500 million. I'm like, is that really better than Google and looking at reviews and stuff because everybody suggests their hairdresser on there. So in Castle Rock is a relatively small town. And I will say that it is also a very wealthy area. And so that has also helped me. grow like I have being in a more wealthy environment. And positioning yourself in that market as a high end, high ticket stylist and, like, stepping into that perceived value and owning that and, like, running your business, like, that's actually who you are, I think has helped a ton. I love that. Okay, thank you for sharing all that. So anything else major that you can think of that I haven't already mentioned that has caused that, like, large, large, large growth? Or not really. I mean, not really. I think just being consistent and, and sticking to your processes and boundaries and, you know, it is hard, but, you know, I, again, now I, I have had to have those firing conversations with clients as we talked about, but like I now there are very few days I go to work and I'm like, Ugh, I have that client today. So I have that too, which makes it so much more enjoyable. And so, yeah, I just think being consistent, implementing the things, listening to advice and doing it. Yeah. And that's how I feel the way I do about the cycle of success too, is you love your schedule, you love the clients that you work with, and you've gotten to the point where you're earning a great income and that's kind of like the meat of that. So okay, love that. Now let's dip into, because I think this is what makes you really unique and really fascinating. You and your husband, Colin, have prioritized, like you said, years and years and years ago, you got the travel bug and it has not gone away. It was five month trips. And when we say Oh, trips or vacations. People think a week, maybe two weeks if you're really splurging. No, Tawny regularly takes at least, I mean, one two month vacation every single year and then multiple many week long trips throughout the year. So, like, tell us a little bit about how that started and how you've worked that in and how you've kept that such a non negotiable while still seeing this incredible growth. Because I think you're just goals when people hear this. They're gonna be like, what the hell? I want to do that. And it really genuinely can be done. It can. It can. And it is, I mean, I have, I'm not going to lie. I have struggles every time I go away. Yeah. Next level, next levels. Yeah. Yeah. Worrying about my clientele specifically, you know, obviously I'm going on vacation, but but every time you take time away from the salon, you lose people. And, and it could be even a week vacation. People will lose people. It's pretty amazing actually. So we started when he graduated from college in 2009, we got jobs in Alaska and that was when I just quit. That was the first time I quit. And we went and did a summer in Alaska and we, and actually it was on that trip that we started learning because seasonal workers are, because we were working a seasonal job. Seasonal workers are an interesting breed of people and they do, they work seasonal job after seasonal job and in between they travel. Which is super interesting. So that was kind of where we first learned this is possible. Yeah. And you don't have to spend. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of dollars to travel trap. Yeah. And there are a lot of places around the world that are cheap and things like that. So we learned that there. So then we came back and I worked at cost cutters for a short period of time because I just needed hourly money because we were going to leave again. So that's when we went and lived in Australia for a year. Okay. I did hair there. So I quit cost cutters, went there, I did hair for a year in Australia, which was a fantastic experience. That's awesome. And then, yeah, and then we came back and we were, that was when I went back to work at the commission salon and I worked for a few months and then we went on our five month trip. So when I was working commission. It was a relatively easy thing to do because I would just shuffle my clients off to another stylist. Yeah, so the owner would still make money because they would typically be less busy stylists. So they would be busier for a longer period of time. So it was a bit more challenging when I went booth rental and I have worked out a bit of a deal with the owner of my salon, which has been fantastic. And she's been great about it, but yeah, we've just, we've prioritized it. So I think when I was at the commission salon, we had one of the summit coaches come in. And she didn't love that. I did this traveling. Of course she was coaching my owner of my salon. Like you need to stop letting her do this. Yeah. But then I was going to probably leave. So she suggested that I start booking clients. When I was going on a trip, book their appointment while I'm gone and book their first or even next one appointment back with me to know they're coming back with you. Yeah. Yes. To ensure they're coming back with me rather than me just coming back or relying on the stylist taking care of them to prebook them back with me when I was coming back. Mm hmm. And so that kind of. That system started working really well for me. So when I went booth rental, that's pretty much what I started doing is I would set all my clients up before I left with, you know, depending on how long the trip was. With another stylist and then when I, and then all my appointments when they came back to me. So it, it's tough. Like I said, every time I lose people to some degree, absolutely. I have to be mentally and emotionally prepared for that and deal with the emotions that come up each time because they're going to, because we, especially when you get to the point where you genuinely. Adore all of your clients. It really hurts because that now they're all your favorites, you know, but like you said you can go on a week long trip and people still leave you. You cannot go on a trip and clients will always have a wandering eye and I think and that's what I am always reminding you of when you're like shoot this person who's genuinely my favorite and then her two friends, you know, I love you. Canceled, clearly found another stylist, but it's like, Tawny, how many new guest requests did you receive last month? And you're like, well, 15. It's like, okay, girl, you're good. Like, it's okay. It sucks. It hurts. I mean, we're emotional beings. We love our people. But like, just remembering, this is the lifestyle that you want. This is very important to you. You would lose clients either way as long as you're keeping your business flowing, where there's a new, A steady stream of new people to fill those spaces. That's kind of the key. Yeah. And then, you know, on a, I guess, personal note as well with the traveling, like, realizing that it doesn't have to cost a fortune because I know that's the other thing is like, I'm not bringing in income, right. During that time period. And then, you know, I have to also financially plan ahead for that. But we've strategically picked destinations that, you know, are not that expensive. Yeah. The most expensive part is getting there. However, I do backpack and I do public transport and I stay in hostels and I, I'll do street food from time to time. Like, you know, so. It's so dang cool though. I think all the places that you've been, you've been to a place that I had never even heard of before, let alone plan to visit. So like real quick, just rattle off some of the spots that you've been, just for people to get an idea of what we're talking about. Gosh. Well, I guess this year I went to Columbia. I've been, some of my favorites are Nepal. I love Southeast Asia. So I've been to Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam. And I've been to the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia. I've been to Africa multiple times. So South Africa is one of my favorites. I've also been to Morocco, Egypt Tanzania, Malawi. And then a little bit of Europe, but Europe is more expensive. So it's. You stay away from there more. Okay. Yeah. I was just telling a friend the other day, I haven't been to the UK and she was like, what? You've been everywhere. that's where most people go on their first like international trip. But you guys really are just scrappy with the way that you travel and how you figure it out. And it'll be so cool. We'll be on soul tribe calls and Tawny will come in just super sunburned with like a tiki hut behind her. Johnny, where are you? She's like surrounded by. She's like, she named some country I've never even heard of. There's like, you know, monkeys howling in the background and stuff. So it's really neat. It's really cool. I'm very, very, very impressed by you. And then obviously, I know you took your turkey trip. I know through all of these things, I'm like, how do we even get to this? Kind of navigate into because here we are really hyping you up really like gas and the hell out of you. But there has been a lot of struggle since I've known you to in well before I've known you. And, and Tony's been on a serious infertility journey over the last many, many, many years. And so. So that's kind of the, I think, the inspiration behind her podcast. So I'll make sure to link that below because she's opening up big time and she's having a lot of people open up big time and just sharing stories with that. And I know I've told you this, but I'm going to say it before. I've learned so much about infertility from knowing you I've learned. The proper way is not even proper, but just things that I never even would have thought of before navigating sensitivities of people, you know, dealing with an infertility journey. So why don't you show how that like intermixes because through all of this, I mean, you guys have been, I mean, for the last, what, six years, you guys have been navigating this eight, eight years. So how does that weave into all of this as well? Share a little bit about that. Oh, gosh. Well, we're talking about all the fun stuff, but it's part of your story. It really is. And it's a huge part of my story at this point in my life. So if I cry, I'm sorry. We're ready. But yeah, so, you know, with the lifestyle that we were living, our living we did put off having kids for quite some time. But I used to always say like, okay, by 30. I gotta start, you know, looking into this because of the aid, you know, your body starts to shut down in that regard. Can I ask you this real quick? I don't know if I've asked you this before, but before you guys even started trying, would you discuss, like, let's get our travel out of our system before we have kids, or were you hoping to be the family that takes the kids as well? Like, you weren't gonna stop this travel lifestyle, or you didn't really? Correct. Correct. We were gonna continue it. I mean, I'm very aware of the fact that it would have changed. Totally. But it can be done. But I think it can be done. I mean, I follow family Instagram accounts that travel across the world. And I met a family last year in Honduras that they travel a ton. She's actually a traveling nurse. So when she's not working, they just go, you know, so it is possible for sure. I knew that it wouldn't be the same type of travel and maybe not the same destinations either. Like, I'm about to go on a pretty intense trip here in September, and I probably wouldn't bring a kid on it. To where? Pakistan and Oman. Okay. Amazing. So, you know, the destinations would change, the type of travel would change. For sure. So we were aware of that. Yeah. But we did want, because I do, I always wanted my kids to experience the world. Yeah. And not live that sheltered, you know, just American life. I want, I want to share that experience because that experience alone has changed me. It's who you and Colin are literally. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we, you know, we were ultra cautious for many years of birth control. God, I don't know if that's allowed to be said on here, but there is no boundaries. Go ahead. I mean, you know, when you go through this stuff, your sex life became, becomes easier to talk about. So so yeah. So we finally decided to pull the birth control at one point and we weren't actively, actively trying. We were just. We'll see what happens. Yep. Yeah. And nothing, nothing, nothing. And so then I started, I think about after six months of that, I started tracking a bit more doing the ovulation tests for about another year. And then I went to my OB and I was just like, Hey, can we just run some, you know, standard tests, blood work on me, semen analysis on him, see what happens. I think I was honestly convinced that. It was going to all be fine. And we'll just keep trying. Even though it had basically been a year and a half. So ran tests on me, everything came back fine. My husband's semen analysis, first one came back. Not so great. And she actually, my OB had sent us to a fertility doctor to do that. I don't know if just normal offices do that. So so they like immediately tell us. IVF is the way to go. And, so there's two main processes for fertility for, if people don't know. There's IUIs, which is basically the turkey baster method. And then IVF is the big daddy. So which is all the shots and the medications and all the things. Yeah. And so we were like, what? Just immediately go from, we're just trying naturally to, you have to do IVF. I would feel the same way. Yeah. Because of the way his semen analysis had come back, they said IUI is a waste of time. So we decided to get a couple other opinions and he actually had some normal semen analysis from a couple other doctors. So I honestly, at this point, think that was a one off. I think, yeah, like a fluke, it sat for too long or who knows. Yeah, I mean, and they're looking at million, they can't possibly look at every single sperm. Yeah. Yeah. They look at a smaller sample of it and they make, so so yeah, so we talked about it and we just decided we're going to go with IVF and because the other doctors that got the normal semen analysis were like, well, you could do IUIs first. But we knew a lot of people that had spent a lot of money on That and then ended up IVF. Anyways, so that kind of started our journey and I went into my first round of IVF thinking this is going to fix all my problems. It's gonna make us pregnant, yeah. And I, I mean, you hear so many people go through that. And I mean, I feel, I, you probably know the statistic, but like, a lot of people go through that and that's their answer. That's what they need, yeah. So when I started IVF or when I started trying to get pregnant, I think the, well, I guess it was IVF because that was what really threw me into the infertility world. I think it was one in eight was the statistic of people struggling with infertility in the U S and it's now gone to like one in six. Wow. Wow. Yeah. So anyways, so yeah, so we, you know, embarked on our first IVF journey and I was convinced it was all going to work. And then we ended up with one embryo from that round. Which was devastating because you guys knew that wasn't typical. Yeah. Yeah. So we decided to do the first half, which is the egg retrieval. The second half is basically the embryo transfer where they put the embryo in. We decided to do another egg retrieval because they gave us like a 50, 50 chance of that embryo. So we're like, okay, well, let's try again. Do you mind sharing like numbers? Cause I know a lot of people too, like that is a huge thing. It's just the cost of this. And we'll obviously talk about Turkey and along with that. So like, do you want, like what, when you and Colin first hear this and they're like, okay, you can do the IUI or you can do IVF, I'm assuming IVF was significantly more, but you're like, let's just go for it. Just when you stepped into it, obviously after eight years of you've spent. Can't, you'd probably throw up if you said the number, but like, what was that initial, like, what kind of numbers were you guys looking at? So we picked a more affordable clinic on purpose because, you know, and sure, you probably get what you pay for, but I'm also now, like, You've tried a lot of different places. Yeah, it's really I know the embryologists make a huge difference for sure, but you know, I really feel like all these doctors are doing the best they can for their patients. So so we picked a cheaper option, which at the time their base price for IVF, I think was around like 9, 000. Okay. Like that's wild. And that's cheap option. Yeah. But that's not including the meds. So after that's just the process and that's Just the egg retrieval process. Insurance doesn't cover that? Not mine. Some does, some states do, some companies do. I've heard like I, through my process, I learned of women who were just going to work at Starbucks. Part time to get the if you work for some big big name corporation You probably have those benefits, but you and Colin are both very entrepreneurial. So yeah Yeah, so we've always provided our own health insurance, which is expensive and then doesn't cover Yeah, and especially nothing labeled infertility in Colorado has just started changing that where they're starting to cover a little bit more but but I also just recently ran into an issue where they build my insurance and I got the bill. My insurance said no to all of it. And I called and I tried to be like, well, cause they told me in the office, they're like, oh, well, if we, we could try to bill insurance and they may cover it. I hate when they say that. Yeah. The problem is, is if they, they bill the insurance, the higher price. And then if insurance doesn't cover it, you're responsible for the higher price, but they just don't know until they come back. Yeah. Right. So they have a cash pay price that's cheaper than had I known that insurance wasn't going to cover it. I would have just paid it and they wouldn't negotiate with me. So I had to pay the insurance price. So, so frustrating to add to the list of frustrations. Keep going. Don't even get me. I could go on a whole other podcast on that stuff. So but anyway, so yeah, so we're looking at a base price of, let's say 9, 000. Meds ended up being an eye. Did so much research. I called all the different pharmacies, all the different meds, like got all of the different med prices cause it varied. There were like discount programs on the websites for some of these meds that I was signing up for. I was putting, I had to upload tax documents and things like that. Just trying to get it as cheap as possible. And I still spent about 4, 000 on one round of meds. So anyways, so then the second egg retrieval that we did, the doctor had upped his prices, which as business people, we understand, right? So it was then 11, 000 was the base for that and about meds. But also that second time he decided to put me on a few other extra meds to try to get a better outcome that were even more expensive. I think one, they wanted me on HGH, which is human growth hormone for that one time was going to cost me like over 1, 000 for that. So anyways, so we did the second egg retrieval again, ended up with one embryo. So at this point we have two embryos and I decided, you know what, screw it. I'm just gonna, we're just gonna do a transfer. So I went in for a baseline ultrasound for that to make sure everything was okay before I started the meds. And I had a fibroid in my uterus that was actually protruding on the lining of my uterus. So had it stayed in the wall, it would have been fine. But it was like, it was kind of like doing like one of them just protruding on the lining, which means an embryo is not going to attach their stick to that. Yeah. So then I had to have surgery doctor didn't get it all the first time because he was being overly cautious, which I appreciate, but I'm like, I need this thing gone. So I had to do it again. So it wasn't until actually, so I started this process. Egg retrieval was 2018. Wow. And this was 2020 at this point because also I can't just pay for this stuff back to back. No. Yeah. Time between it, trying to build up the money. Two surgeries then, which insurance did cover a lot of that. So that was helpful. That's good. And then went in 2020 and did my first transfer. In June of 2020. And then I did my second. Well, that one was unsuccessful. Did my second one in August of 2020. Also unsuccessful. And so here we are, we've paid 10, 000 and we're back to square one. Yeah. And still, by the way, our diagnosis is unexplained infertility. Yeah. Which is actually a diagnosis, which isn't if you're pregnant. It is. But yeah, like, on paper, everything should be working. And every time I've watched you go through this the last few rounds, like, they're like, let's just tweak this one thing. It will give us extra, you know, insurance that, like, it's going to work. And, like, each time you're like, This has to be the one. I'm just going to give it one more go. I'm just going to give it one more go, and as a friend watching you these last few years go through this, like, I can't even imagine in your shoes, like, how just taxing that is and exhausting that is, and so I guess maybe speed up because there's been a lot of Browns since then, but that's the position of where you're at now. How, how much have you gone through? So after that we did Well, I guess, okay, so, to save money, we went and did it overseas. Yeah. To Turkey. So that was what you referenced earlier, was going to Turkey. Mm hmm. So in Turkey, I did two egg retrievals and three embryo transfers. Mm hmm. Is that right? Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, so I, in total, I guess I've done five egg retrievals. Eight embryo transfers, multiple embryos. I mean, it got to the point where they were putting two, three in me because that ups your chances. So we did the rounds in Turkey and then I decided last year to do one last hurrah here. Hail Mary. She said yep. Also went to a slightly different clinic, different doctor, different take. They put me on a ton of immune suppressants and anti inflammatories to try to like the. The theory is that my body is attacking the embryos. Yeah. That's the theory or that there's too much inflammation. But even that, they tell you they don't know. This is their gut. Yeah. It's all a guess. So we did all these things this last year, did an egg retrieval. I actually had a decent outcome from this last egg retrieval. I ended up, I mean, but there are factors to that too. And I feel like that's how they keep you. Stringing along because you're like, Oh, this last one, we had some progress. Maybe we should go again. And I've watched you. It's just the last two. You said this is going to be it. And then this last one, you're like, No, I'm gonna go again. And I'm assuming you're still kind of in the same place, but you can change your mind, obviously, at any moment that that's up to you. But right at this very moment, you guys are like, We have to step away from this, right? Yes. Yes. Last year was tough. The immune suppressants and the anti inflammatories wrecked me. I got oh, and they put me on at one point, like five different antibiotics. So I remember that. I got thrush. Yeah. From that. Yes. Which was disgusting, if anybody has ever had thrush. I have had thrush before, it is horrible. I think I would rather have a yeast infection over anything. Yeah, not in your mouth. Which it is a yeast infection, but it's in your mouth. On your tongue. So gross. So gross. Actually, I think when I was at the retreat last year, I was fighting it for many other reasons. So I also got the shingles last year from all the immune suppressants. So just a whole bunch of stuff. And then emotionally. So this is interesting. When we were waiting for a genetic testing. Results of our first round of embryos to come back. It was like New Year's and I vividly remember this. My husband was like, what do we do? Cause it was two embryos. We had sent to genetic testing and then one was deemed not viable. So we went back to one and he said, what if they come back? Both. not viable. And I, my immediate answer was like, well, we just do this again. We just keep trying. Like in that moment, I was like, no, we just keep doing this. You were just so certain that that was just the answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, no, eventually it's got to work because it does for most people. Right. Well, and let me also from the outside, looking and scrolling back on your Instagrams and stuff, when you first, correct me if I'm wrong, this has been my perspective. When you first got into this, The whole realm of this community, you really threw yourself into it. You're like, I am an IVF, you know, like, warrior. We're going to take this on. I'm going to join the thousands of women that I've connected with who become mothers through this. Like, you were so in it. You threw yourself in it. You're like, this is my identity. We're doing this. And I was very open about it, too. Yeah, sharing. Social media, with people. I was a little bit reluctant in the beginning, but then I was like, you know what, like, whatever, like, this is what we have to do. Document it. It'll be memories to look back on because you were so hopeful. And I think what I've watched is just layer by layer by layer that just hopefulness gets stripped away. Fucking sucks and it's heart wrenching to watch, but it stops being fun to talk about, and we even talked about this before we were recording, like, how we wanted to tie this into the podcast episode, and I, I'd love to hear you touch on this a bit. One, if you're going through, obviously, what you're talking about, which, since being, like, having Soul Tribe and connecting with so many women, you know my stuff. story, getting pregnant very young and things like that. I also didn't realize how many people it infertility affected. I also am very aware that I took my fertility for granted and like, it's just the perspective that it gives you. But navigating it with your clients, going from being so open to being like, I just want to crawl into the ground and not see people, but like, I have eight weeks of clients booked and we got to pay all these bills, like, how did you navigate that? And do you have any, you know, which things you wish you would have done differently or anything like that? I mean, it's hard because I do appreciate being open about it. I think it takes the stigma away from it. I think you know, it becomes a more normalized conversation. People learn from you. They like, you know, they become more aware of the situation where it was so taboo to talk about even a miscarriage, you know, and which is still kind of that way. But it is lifting the veil a little bit. And so I did want to do my part in that, you know, to give people awareness because they do think, you know, and not to anyone's. But even my sister is one who had no problems getting pregnant, had a baby at 19 as well, and like, Yeah, she had no idea how lucky she was, you know, to be able to have done that and lucky, you know, she was 19. There were struggles with that too. I'm not discounting. Totally. But, but yeah, I mean, there were even a few times throughout my journey where she said some things that I was like, what you just said, she didn't realize it would hurt. And I learned so much and you know, you're, you live through your own life circumstances. So we all have a whole different story that we've heard and what our loved ones have been through, you know? But Knowing you, Tawny, and watching you have those moments, like, people just don't realize some of the hurtful shit that they said. And I know your clients love you, and we're trying to support you, but like, these little comments that would make, you know, Oh, my so and so adopted, or did surrogacy, or did all of these things that you're just like, Oh my god, I'm fucking exhausted. Could you stop? You know? Yeah. And to be perfectly honest, like, okay, so I was open about it in the beginning, and, I mean, I, where am I trying to go with this? That's okay. I'm still working through that of trying to figure it out because now I've come to the process of. I won't be pursuing treatment. I know that in my heart of hearts and my soul of souls. Do I know that I won't be pursuing anything else? Not really at the moment, but right now I don't have the capacity for anything else and any more heartbreak and any more hopes and dreams getting crushed. So it sounds dramatic, but that's how it feels. No, it sounds very appropriate. Yeah. So now, you know, in the beginning it was, oh, you're trying to get pregnant. Try this. Try this. Try this. I actually Everyone's a doctor all of a sudden. This is one of my favorite things to share. My client doesn't see me anymore, so I was sharing this anyway. Yeah. She actually told me one time she was very religious. And she had four children, and she said that every time she conceived a child, she yelled God's name during sex, and that's how she got pregnant. So this is the stuff that people would tell me. Not just like the standard. Not just the standard, put your feet up on the wall, hang upside down after sex, like, I mean. A whole plethora of things that people would tell me to try. And you know what I've learned? It's so fascinating and again, I don't really have my own experience of this, but many years ago, one of my sister's best friend's son was going through cancer treatments. Like he was diagnosed with like a brain tumor as an infant, like it is one year birthday. And they did a lot of fundraisers and stuff and he, they grew up quite a bit of followings. She would get the most bizarre messages as well, like how to cure cancer, as if this entire team of doctors in Chicago didn't know what they were talking about. And this lady on Facebook saying to give him, you know, marijuana gummies or something is the answer. Like, it's just bizarre. And being open on social media, I have received messages from people from high school that I didn't even really talk to in high school. Yeah. They were like, Hey, the universe is speaking to me to reach out to you because they were promoting some diet. Oh, the 7lm or something. Yeah. And then I also have had, I've had numerous people offer to be my surrogate, which is such an unselfish thing and so kind of them, but I also don't think they really realize what that entails. And, and like. Yeah, that's just, yeah. You know, and I appreciate it, but really, in full transparency, I think the only person I would use as a surrogate is, like, my sister, so, yeah. I mean, I've even heard people say that, like, in a lighthearted, joking way, and again, that's what I've learned from you, not that you want to be this, like, This is how you should talk police, but since knowing you, Tawny, I have become so much more socially aware of just little things that people make with good intentions. Yeah, absolutely. You know, but it's just like, no, that, that's not it. That's not the answer. And sometimes you just need to listen to somebody and allow, you it to suck and not have a solution and not have a light hearted like joke at the end of it and just let them hurt in front of you and not have to solve that. And just say I'm sorry that you're going through that. It really sucks, you know, because you can't fix it for them. That's the reality. So they just need love and support. And that is, you know, that's all I can say. That is something I have learned from this journey. And if there is a silver lining coming out of it, like my compassion and my empathy has changed dramatically through this journey. So, and I'm grateful for that. But yeah, as far as navigating the clients, you know, like it was. those things early on and then they would listen to my IVF story or they would follow me on social media and the problem was is they were always waiting for an answer hoping to celebrate with find out. Yeah, of course, you know and I unfortunately never had. Good news to share. But you know, so that was also tough because then I started getting to a point where I'm like, do I keep sharing this? Because they're now waiting to hear. You don't want to keep sharing bad news. Yeah. I had a couple of clients starting to ask the other girls in the salon when I was in the back, like, is Tony pregnant yet? You know, just things like, which again, they mean well. Yeah, but it feels icky being the one that everyone's whispering about. Yeah, and I'm like, I will tell you. You will know. At some point, right? Yeah. So then, you know, fast forward to now we've had all these failures. We've, you know, We've struggled heavily and I don't want to talk about it as much, but I also still want people to be aware and I do still want to, you know, spread the knowledge and spread the, you know, and then especially being in the position I'm in because I am getting, you know, the, well, why aren't you, what about surrogacy? Well, what about adoption? And, you know, And it feels, it starts to feel in that regard, like, if I don't pursue those things, or I don't want to pursue those things, that I'm not doing everything I possibly can. I don't really want to be a mom that bad. Oh, that's a twisted. Narrative, but yeah. And I don't, I know people aren't meaning it that way. But that's painful that that's where your, your mind goes. And we do that about a million things. Mom guilt will do that to you, business owner, like you make up stories, but that's what you hear when people ask you that, you know, not that that's the point. At this point. Yeah. Yeah. And that's painful. And that's what I've learned too is sometimes it's better to just keep those thoughts to yourself because you think that you're helping. But I remember you used to say that like, Yeah. They bring up surrogacy as if that was like groundbreaking, you've never heard of it before, like obviously it's considered it at this point, you know, especially at this point, I mean, and, and there's a lot to be said about I want my own biological children. So yeah, I could do donor eggs donor sperm. But I would like to carry my own biological child. And I also don't think you need to explain that, you know? And for some people that's so great for them and fostering and adoption is so great for them. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. But I think I've just learned, you just don't have to ask people their reasoning behind that. Yeah. Because every that's so personal. And so just what is in your own heart and your husband's heart, that that is not anybody else's business. So, okay. Let's. Transition this into, I think, your podcast, because what I have loved, and I put this podcast out in 20 seconds, I've always kind of wanted to do a podcast at this point I'm at in my life right now you told me your vision behind it, and we did a one on one, and I feel so excited about it and so good about it, and I think your mission is so important, and so it's Radiant Resilience is the, is the name of it, and her, and I think your Take and you can, you can share in your own words, but what I took from it is just everything you hear on podcast, online, social media, a book, like there's always this like beginning, middle and end and there's a happy ending and there's a resolution and there's a, you know, tie it up in a bow. This is it. And I, it's been a. Beautiful and insightful watching you navigate that and now just wanting to shine a light. I'm like, that is not always the answer. Shit, it can just be really, really hard without there being this big lesson wrap up resolution at the end. And so go ahead and share, I guess, your, your vision with the podcast. I always thought that I would do something to help this community the infertility community. I think I've mentioned that to you before. Like, I want to do something to help, but I don't know what that looks like. And I have always felt like I did kind of need to get on the other side of it a little bit to get to that point. So my podcast though, I want to preface by saying that is not just about infertility. So for those of you who think it's just about that, like it, that will be a piece of it because that's my story. But that I want to, I want to shed light on. All the different aspects in life that people struggle with. So through my journey, I, there were several times I felt alone, isolated and intellectually, I know that's not true. I know obviously one in six people struggle with infertility. However, I would like to look up this Statistics on people who don't ever end up pregnant through, through all the, yeah. Yeah. Cause I think that's pretty low. But anyway, so especially in the last year or so, I have felt extremely alone in my journey and like nobody gets it because, and, and it is true to a degree that nobody has walked in my shoes and people won't understand your journey or story exactly to a T because they haven't walked exactly in her shoes. But People can have compassion and empathy. So I just wanted to find a place that we can talk about our struggles, which is hard. It's hard. It's not, I'm not taking that lightly. It's not the most lighthearted thing in the world, but it's also important. Yeah, it is. And to know that you're not the only one, because I do think one of my main things is like social media makes everything look so perfect. And I've actually been having some interesting conversations about this because. Some people just don't want to share that kind of stuff on social media. And I get that. So it's not that they're trying to make their lives look perfect and like, there's nothing wrong. They're just like, well, I don't want to put that on social media. And I respect that as well, but it does promote this. And then it makes everyone feel really alone when all they're seeing is other people highlight reels. What's wrong with me because I'm not living that life or, you know, stuff like that. So it's basically just, I'm doing a lot of interviews and we'll see how it transforms and stuff too. But I'm talking to a lot of people just about their life struggles and some are still very much in the midst of it. Some are on the other side of it. So in those stories, you know, you get hope that there is a light at the end of the tunnel eventually, but I'm also still very much in the midst of my struggle. And, you know, I will probably have an emotional day where I might do a recording of my own emotions on it. Because I'm very much in the middle of it, and I think that people don't talk about it when they're in the middle of it. And I get, again, I fully respect that as well. Yes, a hundred percent, because there are days I'm like, don't talk to me. I don't want to talk about it. You're willing to be the brave person to say, I'll start, you know, here's what I have going on. And then those that do feel comfortable sharing, I think. The concept behind it is brilliant, obviously, like I said, I went on it, I shared personal things that I haven't shared anywhere else because it is uncomfortable, and for me, it was uncomfortable because it's other people's stories, and I feel like, who am I to, like, share that? But it's, it's what makes us who we are, and sometimes that's, you know, an act of God, or that is us. Other people or that's abuse or that's whatever, you know, but I just think it's really, really, really neat what you're doing. So I'll definitely make sure to link that in all the places that you guys can find that. Any other thoughts, Tanya? Anything else you want to share? I don't think so. We switched on a lot of stuff. We did. Yeah, it was good. It was really good. I know I almost interrupted you when we started talking about insurance and things to talk about your real estate investments. Because Tawny is a very well rounded individual. She has a lot of Fascinating information on so many things, but I'm like, Lisa, we need to keep it at these right now. So maybe one day we'll touch on that as well, along with many other things. It's not as exciting as the other things, so. It's not, but it is really cool, and I could ask you questions for an hour about that. But we'll save that for another day. Thank you for opening up, you are so good at that. You give Your vulnerability so freely and I know sometimes that bites you and you have to feel the feelings of that. But I'm grateful for you just like letting me into your heart and I know a lot of people in Soul Tribe feel the same way and hopefully somebody listening this landed with that needed that today. So, thank you. I love you. I'm grateful. I love you too. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you friends so much for listening. I will talk to you on the next episode.