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Connect with Lisa Huff
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Connect with Lisa Huff
Welcome to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff. Over the last 5 years, I've coached hundreds of hairstylists and beauty industry professionals, helping them work their dream schedules exclusively with their dream clientele now and earned their dream income all while fostering genuine connections and lifelong friendships inside the beauty industry. In this podcast, we dive deep into abundance, manifestation, business building strategies, and creating a life that you are truly proud of, both behind the chair and at home. Are you ready to embark on a journey of personal growth, success, and sisterhood? Then then hit that subscribe button now and get ready to experience the pure magic of Silas Ultra conversations. Hello, friends. Welcome back to Stylus Soul Tribe Conversations. I am here with my good friend, Anna. Anna is an OG Soul Tribe member. She has been in my world for over 5 years now, Anna. We have known each other for a long time. We have watched a lot of live shows. It really is with each other. Anna had a big magic idea years ago. You guys are gonna hear all about that in this episode. But right now, her story and her role is she's bridging the gap between hairstylist and com cosmetic industry insiders. I'm so excited for her to kinda share her story how her big magic idea dropped in, how that's evolved over the years, and what it is she's up to right now. I've learned so much from you, Anna. You are the first person that pops into my head every time. Time. It just happened the other day. I saw a reel on Instagram that because of Anna's knowledge, I've learned was kind of a crock of shit a little bit. And I sent it to her. I'm like, you need to post about this because the the line between marketing jargon and real life facts is actually a lot bigger than any of us have realized and Anna's really Passion About That. So, Anna, why don't you give a quick brief intro, start to tell your story, and we will go from there. Hey, everyone. So I'm Anna from Translating the Label. And I got really into, like, food being, like, all natural and organic back back before it was cool, like, when people thought I was crazy for doing this. And, naturally, that led into wanting to have, like, organic and natural products. So I would always, you know, be seeking those out. And then I wanted to know more about them. Mhmm. And I will Google them, and I always felt like the Google searches would just take me to the same information That wasn't really like, I wanted to go deeper than that. Mhmm. And I had this this, like, need for deeper information for years, and I just had no idea where to get it. And then I finally took I got my ABCH, if you guys don't know what that is, American Board Certified Hair Colorist. Mhmm. And then that led me to find more, like, Oh my gosh. Non branded education? Yeah. So then I found this education Reese or not resource. This company that does education for hairstylists, and they had this thing, this color certification called freaks and geeks. And I don't know about, like, you, Lisa, but I always feel like as far as, like, behind the chair education, I can never know enough about color. Yeah. And in that class, it was, like, a 4 day class. It was pretty intense. But they started talking about supporting, like, ingredients in hair care and, like, what what those actually do. Yeah. And that finally. What year was that class? What? What year was that class? Oh, gosh. I wanna say, like, maybe I took it in, like, 2017, 2018. Okay. But somewhere around there. It was a while ago. And finally, after I took that class, it all started to click. I knew exactly where I needed to go for the information, and I needed to start looking into, like, cosmetic chemistry and, like, what's happening in there, which also led me into wanting more information about, like, branch management and regulation. And then how does it all come together? And I was also, like many hairstylists searching for a clean list of ingredients Mhmm. Which, spoiler alert, I have never found. Mhmm. But I did find out why I could not locate a clean ingredients list. And I'm gonna interrupt you real quick because you are throwing a lot of words at everyone, and I have been along on this journey with you. So I've watched you uncover these things. And so to me, it's, like, now become second nature, but I know a lot of these things that you're saying are gonna be, like, translate that for me. No no wonder we call it translating the label. So 1, you're not actively behind the chair anymore currently. This has evolved into something else. So Anna has gone I mean, she's also so very much a stay at home full time mom as well, but she has also gone full time until, like, exploring this, digging into this. So when you say you haven't found clean ingredients, I know what you're talking about because I watched you come to that realization. I guess, do you remember the moment when you realized and I don't wanna put words in your mouth because the way that I with the you learn something, you bring it back to Soul Tribe. I, you know, process it in my own way and make up my own kind of story about it. But, like, to me, what I and correct me if I'm wrong. What I have learned from you is that, like, everything we talk about when it comes to clean or safe or sustainable or eco friendly. Maybe not everything, but 99.9 percent of the things is significantly marketing terms. Right? Like, you was your realization around a clean list of ingredients that doesn't exist? What even is clean? What even is natural? Right? Right. Exactly. So I remember putting all these pieces to the puzzle together and realizing what was actually going on there. And like you said, it was all marketing and just feeling very betrayed Mhmm. Just by the beauty industry as a whole. And it really took me a little while to, like, get over that myself. Was a that was a a roadblock that you had to really work Thru because Yeah. For a while so did you just kinda, like, lose hope or, like, I guess, what was the realization of that of, like, okay. All these things that I've been seeking out because food has told you know, food companies have told us that. Hair care products have told us that. We go to cosmetology school. They say you can only use professional products because it only has the better ingredients or you can only eat these foods because they're the only things that are safe, and you're discovering wait a minute. Like, what is your overall discovery through all that? Okay. So everything that we're told As far as, like, the products and, like, what makes them exciting and the ingredients, the majority of that is Just Marketing. Mhmm. It's there hasn't been really any significant innovation Or discoveries in hair care for decades, like, 40 years. Wow. Maybe longer. Wow. Which But but these brands at the same time, without having, like, these significant breakthroughs and innovation, all that, these brands still have to make their products sound exciting. Totally. So that we want to, like, buy it. We wanna pass it along to our client. So and if they don't do that, they're gonna go out of business. Yeah. It's the name of the game. Same moment. So it's the Same thing with us. Let's I mean, obviously, we get specializations. We, you know, continue our education. We bring on amenities. But at the, you know, bare level of it, we're not doing anything much different than anyone else. But it's marketing and not that marketing's evil or wrong or anything like that. No. It's just another piece of what keeps the world going around. Right? Exactly. Finally got over the your feelings being hurt. And you're like, okay. First, I feel betrayed, but now I understand that it's marketing. I'm over here trying to create a business. I have to market myself. Like, everybody has to do that. And now it seems that you have this more just this perspective, this lens to see through of they're not lying. It's just simply marketing, And That Is What It Is. Right? Or, like, they're only giving you, like, a small piece of the information. Like okay. Just for example, we're always told that Sulfates are very drying, and they're gonna dry out our hair and strip our hair color. Right? Mhmm. Well, yes. Sulfates, When you use them, like, at high quantities or at hundred percent, they will absolutely dry and irritate your skin. Like, that No 1 is ever going to dispute that. That's a very clear fact. Mhmm. But what they're not telling you is that They're actually used in really small quantities. They're only putting enough in there to effectively cleanse the hair, but then they also they know that sulfates are harsh. So they're gonna put, like, conditioning agents in there to help buffer that. They're also gonna put other cleansing ingredients that help buffer those drying effects as well. So they're not just using 1 cleanser like in a shampoo. Most brands use At least 3, if not more. I mean, you could use 1, but it's not gonna give you that desired user experience. I know when it comes to professional products, like, they want us to repurchase, and they want us to get excited And pass this along to our clients. And, obviously, we're not gonna sell or use products on our clients that are gonna destroy the color we just did. Mhmm. So User experience is king. The other thing is is that every single effective cleansing ingredient because that's what sulfates are. Mhmm. Has the ability to dry out your hair And strip your color and all that kind of stuff. But then here's the where it gets really interesting. Mhmm. Cleansers are not They can contribute to color fading, but they're not the main color fading culprit. Okay. What is? It's actually water. Okay. I remember you've said that before. Okay. So let me just strip this away. I wanna preface everyone, and I don't know how, you know, you listening to this listener. Hello. You may be in Soul Tribe. You may know who Anna is. You may be hearing all this for the first time. I remember when all of us heard this for the first time. It is so hard to break through what has been pushed into our brain since day 1 of cosmetology school. Honestly, even begun then watching commercials your entire life. I remember when Anna came back from this big magic idea from these realizations in the Soul Tribe and said, like, here's what I've learned about sulfates, parabens, and silicones. Right? Those would be the 3. Yeah. And she was like, basically, I'm gonna translate what what, you know, Lisa things, which is very just basic, almost like caveman terms. If a brand is saying there's no sulfates, which we have been saying that for years behind the chair because that's what product knowledge marketing tells us. Like, the only time we learn about the products that we're using on our clients is when the brand teaches us about them. So, of course, that's a biased opinion. When Anna came back and said, like, if it if it says there's not a sulfate, the only way they can get away with that is they're using a sulfate substitute, and that's literally all just marketing. That's All That All Is. Because, right, the something cannot cleanse your hair, tell me if I'm wrong, without having some form of a sulfate or a sulfate alternative. Correct? Yeah. You have to have an ingredient in the shampoo for cleansing. I mean, you can use sulfates for that. There's plenty of alternative Auctions Out There. Mhmm. And I'll have a reason for existing. Mhmm. But you need to have an effective cleanser. You need to have something to buffer the effects of the effective cleanser. And then you also usually wanna put in something in there for foam because even when you have sulfate love that feeling. They still like to add, you know, better foaming effects. Exactly. Interesting. Well, like, when you see that parabens aren't in there, they parabens are preservative if you didn't know. And preservatives are a legal requirement in cosmetics worldwide. So it's not just like a US thing. This is everywhere in the world. So brands still have to put in Something, you know, to preserve the product so that they don't go bad in less than a week. I remember when you told me that too. You said somebody saying they don't have a paraben, then they have a substitute, which is basically the same thing. And marketing has just told you parabens are bad, so let's use this other thing that isn't called that so we can Say That. But, Anna, said if it didn't have anything like that, you'd have to store it in your refrigerator, and it would literally go bad in a week. Like, there's no way any any products sitting on any shelf anywhere does not have a preservative in it. That's impossible. But for somehow through the years, through capitalism, through all of this. We have deemed certain ingredients. What do you call them? Fear? Fear. Yeah. They they call it fear market. Fearmongering. K. So we have, like, these fearful ingredients that are, no. These are bad. And then we also have, which this has become really cool to me now that I've learned this from Anna. Is these, like, celebrity ingredients? That's what you call them. Right? These ingredients that we're saying make these big changes, but what did you learn about those, and then give us some examples of what those are. So they can be called celebrity ingredients, story ingredients, marketing ingredients. They they have a variety of different terms. But and this celebrity ingredients, now these are crucial for our product. Like, you have to know this, what you wanna put in it from the beginning. Crucial for a product for a brand, for a business standpoint. Okay. So not crucial to get the hair the job done with the hair. Right? No. Just to bring them and survive without these story ingredients. Exact I mean, some of them could because there's other ways to go about this. Oh, good. They'll put in these story or celebrity ingredients. Sometimes they benefit the hair, but a lot of times they don't. They're just they just add them to the product to talk about to make the product sound exciting. Mhmm. Either called a story ingredient or a celebrity ingredient. And, I mean, there are things like olive oil. We know that that is very beneficial for the hair and serves a lot of things. However, You put it in, and it's gonna add some benefits. But the most of the benefits that you notice are actually gonna come from things that are a lot more boring to talk about or sometimes even taboo to talk about. Like what? What would be an example of taboo? Okay. So An example of taboo would be, like, silicones. Mhmm. Silicones are, like they're put in there for a lot of conditioning ingredients. They give the hair slip. You know, they provide heat protection, humidity protection. They put them into shampoos for To make them color safe. Okay. That's actually 1 of the main color safe ingredients for shampoo is silicone. Or sometimes the ingredients are boring to talk about, like like, fatty acids or fatty alcohols. Those are conditioning ingredients, but, like, I mean, how could you really make that sound exciting if we don't sounds so much more better than fatty acid. So we say that it's oatmeal, or we say that it's this berry, or we say that it's see anything like that. Right? Absolutely. Oh, wait. Can I ask you the switch? We didn't talk about this ahead of time so you can tell me what direction you wanna go with this. Do you feel comfortable calling out, like, specific brands just to use them as an example so people know what we're talking about, or does that make you a little uncomfortable? Okay. So I don't part of what I do is I like to leave the brands anonymous. I don't want to promote the brands. I also don't want to speak, like, negatively of the brands. Fair. However, sometimes I will use a brand like L'Oreal or Schwarzkroft As examples. And the only reason I use them is because they're, like, beauty conglomerates, and they own so many. Okay. Fair. But I think that's totally fine. So I've had my own realization that now I can see so clearly when which, of course, that's what we're all doing on social media. A brand is going to market to these story ingredients because it's part part of their marketing strategy. That's why they're in business. That's why they're Successful. That's why they get to keep growing and, you know, creating products that we all like. Okay. So what I think is interesting with what you've done with this and how you're now helping stylists, I I think it's very honorable that you aren't, like, Slandering or trying to create any major drama because you understand with the where these brands are coming from. How would you say a stylist SkinDecide. Say they're bringing on a new, you know, product line to carry behind the chair. Say they're taking out a new color line or something like that. How do you think that stylists can decide if a brand is in alignment with their own businesses' values and things like that to move forward with that. Because, obviously, we know some of this is marketing mumbo jumbo, which is fine, but how do we decide which brands really feel In Alignment That Way. Okay. So the first thing you should do is write down your values. Okay. Right? How does 1 do that? Where would you even say we begin with that? Like, is that core values as a human? Or how does that turn into brand? I don't think what are some ideal things that you would like to see In a Brandt. Like are you concerned about allergens? Are you concerned about ingredients? Are you concerned let me think. About the environment. Are you concerned about a brand supporting stylist? Like, write down about transparency. Are you concerned about inclusivity? Are like, what is important to you? It's gonna be different for everybody. The list can go on and on. Mhmm. So first thing I want you to do is write all of those down and figure out what your core ones are. And then from there, go into a brand that you're either using or maybe interested in using. Go on to their website and read through their about me h. And see how much information they first of all, see if they touch upon your values. And then if they do, see how much information they provide about that. And you can also look to see, like, what kind of If you really really wanna get into it, what kind of terminology is it? Like, are they are they being very vague, or are they being very specific? Mhmm. Okay. And then that should help you decipher, you know, is this a brand I wanna work with or not? Do we have the same values? Okay. Because when you have the same values as the products you're using, you're gonna get very excited about those products, and then that's gonna shine through to your clients and get them excited about it and then fair to also say, obviously, which we all are already doing this, but try the product, see how you like it because that Yeah. What I have found so interesting. And I think this is why you come back to values because, again, Anna went digging for more information. And as anticlimactic as this is. You really found there none of them are really that different from each other. Right? Oh, they're not that different. Which is so crazy. That was really interesting is there's no clean ingredients list Out There. But 1 of the reasons there's no clean ingredient list out there is because you can say something bad About every single ingredient that is used, including water. Did you know water can kill you in multiple ways? Yeah. That's funny. Browning, but you can also ingest too much of it and get poisoned? Uh-huh. So there's no such staying as, like, these ingredients are good. These ingredients are bad. That that doesn't exist. You dug deeper, and you cannot find that anywhere. Correct. And what I also found interesting, and I hate to even say this because I know this is gonna rub hairstylist the wrong way. We've already been through our, like, grieving process. Would you also agree I know we've had this conversation that, like, you discovered from an ingredient level and maybe what's the word I'm looking for? Results level. I don't know. Are drugstore products not that different when you break it down as professional products. Yeah. So people always ask me this, and I I hate the answer to it, but it doesn't change what the answer is. Oh, I can't I still can't wrap my other arm up. Oh, okay. I don't Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. So when when a brand is, like, creating their products, everybody can shop from the same Suppliers. Like, there isn't like, you go to these suppliers for professional hair care lines and you go to these no. No. No. It's all the same ingredients. I mean, there's lots of them out there. So don't don't get me wrong on that. For sure. Everybody has access to the same to the same stuff, to the same suppliers. And what it really comes down to is it's actually not the ingredients That really makes the difference. It's the formulation and the people formulate. So it's kind of like I always tell people it's like a good chef versus a bad chef. Like Okay. I love that analogy. Yeah. Like, you could send a we'll say a world renowned, like, 5 star chef to Aldi, and they can get you or Walmart, and they can Whip you up, like, the meal of your life. Right? Mhmm. And then you can also just send, like, a cook or just a 1 star chef Mhmm. To Walmart, and They'll give you what you would expect. Right? Okay. Now the we don't plan this ahead of time. This is just my brain being curious now. Love that analogy. I don't think I've ever heard you say that, and that actually brings me more peace. Because, yes, yes, a chef is gonna give me a way, way, way, way, way better meal with that Walmart food than I would be able to create you. You know? So when it comes to maybe you don't even know this answer. I'm just curious now. When it comes to the hiring process of these professional lines, these salon quality lines versus the big box store whatever lines. What roles and jobs does does that chef, let's call them, just understand Brand More. Do they have a bigger budget to work with? What really makes it different? So this is a whole rabbit hole, Lisa. Okay. So yeah. So it's it's really the the cosmetic chemist or the formulator. That's gonna make the biggest difference. But they can kind of come from anywhere because there are gonna be, like, some indie brands who are created by cosmetic chemist. Right? So they can make their own formulations. There could be some other brand going to a contract manufacturer to get the formulation. And then you're gonna have, like, we'll say your L'Oreal's or, like, your SportsProft or your Henkel's or your Procter and Gamble, whatever. They're gonna have very extensive, like, r and d departments. Their they have, like, the money to invest in everything. Right? Mhmm. Which Also puts them under much higher scrutiny. Mhmm. Because if they make 1 misstep that's where I'm at. That's very interesting. My brain still can't really wrap my head around that that, like, those brands that we all know. We're not gonna name names, but, like, that they actually probably have a better, more more robust research and development team than maybe even what we're carrying on our shelves because that's bizarre to me because I'm sorry. I don't know if it's placebo, Anna, or what it is, but I can tell you, I know drugstore products make my hair feel like garbage, but I guess maybe I'll think of that as the chef analogy. It's not the ingredients themselves that do it. It's not the ingredients. It's the chef or the cosmetic chemist. Yep. So fascinating. Okay. Let's we kinda touched on this a little bit. Let's talk a little bit more on fear based marketing versus science. So, I mean, I guess, we touched Sean a little bit. Do you have more to unpack there? I know we talked about celebrity ingredients. We talked about the fear, the bad, but here's what science actually tells us. What else what other thoughts do you have around that? Yeah. So you can say something bad about every ingredient out there if you want to, which is why nobody will put together a clean ingredients list because competitors, it would just be Very easy for them to tear that apart. They could just go to the toxicology report for everything and just Look for there's bad and good stuff in every toxicology report, and you can just pick up carry pick out the bad and showcase that. Wow. So Okay. So if someone truly wanted to be clean, granola, hippie dippie, true I mean, is that castile soap. Like, what what is, like, the cleanest version of cleaning yourself without soap? Okay. So this this is actually going to be very subjective. And Okay. The answer is gonna vary from person to person. So Okay. Yeah. So somebody could say Castile soap. Somebody else, like, could say efficiency of the ingredients. Okay. Tell me And unpack that. So ingredients that do what they're supposed to do efficiently And in small quantities and, you know, don't require let's see. Formulas that don't require a ton of, Ingredients. Ingredients. You could argue that those are going to be the cleanest because they're gonna take the least amount of resources. Mhmm. Right. What you're thinking is how effective is that? Do all of these other ingredients aid in the effectiveness of those few ingredients. So you can make, like I'm just gonna say shampoo for As my main example because it's just easy to say. Yeah. But you could make a shampoo with, like, less than 10 ingredients. Mhmm. And you could make a really good shampoo with that. But Okay. You could also make a really good shampoo with, like, 70 ingredients. You know? Like, say 1 day I can make a good meal with 10 or with 70 ingredients. Exactly. That's a good analogy. I can't believe I've never heard you say that before right now. I I feel like maybe I should say it more. You should. That really landed well with me. So, yeah, I think you should. Okay. I I just had a thought, and then I just lost her for a second. Let me find it again. I know that I had it. Okay. If you were maybe you don't have the answer to this too. I feel like I'm really grilling you, but I just love geeking out on this. If you were gonna make your own line and you had all the resources and you had everything to do, from what you know now, going from the super organic, super crunchy person with all these questions and curiosities, would you try to make your line have less ingredients, or, like, what are your thoughts on that? Okay. So, like, for my My personal values. Okay. Because, like which could vary from every single person who's listening to this. So what I'm saying is not, like, gospel or gold here. This is just what aligns with my values. But I I like the idea of using small quantities of efficient ingredients that get the job done, that take the least amount of resources from the earth, that, you know just do a good job. Performance oh, also performance is is king. Okay. So above all else, like, I would want the products to do exactly what they say they're gonna do using, Yeah. Again, this is the most build your brand and your story around the lack of storytelling brand, like ingredients. Right? I would Absolutely do that. Interesting. Okay. So can we talk a little bit about, like, your personal and translating the labels values around sustainability, eco friendly, because I know that you've also learned a lot in this Journey. You've gone on research and stuff, like, on what it actually means for a brand to be sustainable, what it eventually means for our industry to become sustainable. Deep dive into that a little bit. Oh, okay. So sustainability has so many different avenues. Like, for me, when I look at sustainability, I always look like because I always say that I'm like a closet tree hugger. Mhmm. So I'm always looking at it from, like, an environmental perspective, but other people could look at it from like, you could like, the human rights and, you know Yeah. Money. There's so many Complex world we live in. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. There's a lot of different ways you need to be sustainable. Ideally, like, I would want the packaging to use as the least amount of plastic as possible. Okay. I've learned a lot about packaging, and Packaging is is it's really tough because we have too much plastic in the world, but now plastic is currently our Best option that takes, like that doesn't have a huge carbon footprint, but then we're leaving plastic behind. It's It's not ideal. And then there's problems with, like, all the other materials. So, anyways, I would like to see the least amount of plastic used as possible right now. I think the best option is those pouches. Mhmm. Refills programs, kind of refill pouches and things like that. Yes. Okay. Usually in a refill program. But using pouches because that uses significantly less plastic than a typical bottle. Of course, Would like the ingredients to be minimal. Also, the ingredients that are in there, I would like them to all be ethically sourced and harvested. And I even though I really like natural ingredients, those are very appealing to me. But sometimes You need to substitute because maybe, like the area of the world that they were coming from, like, maybe that That area just needs a break. Yeah. And sometimes creating that in a lab is actually more efficient and cleaner than taking it from the natural source. And I'm not saying that that should be done, like, with everything, and we should use that exclusively. But but having some kind of a balance between that is I think is a good thing. Mhmm. I mean, Natural when possible. But if we're depleting a natural ecosystem to get, like, some natural ingredient and then we devastate it and wipe it out, like, Or a forest is cut down so that we can have more land to harvest that. Like, no. Thank you. Yeah. That is so fascinating. So can I turn this a little bit now too? And I think I know your opinion on it, but I don't know for sure. There's obviously a movement right now. Like you said, you were into this before 4 was cool, but it is very cool right now. I am not fully jumped on that cool train because unless I'm, like, super passionate like you were about something, I just don't get find trends and little things that I've heard. And now even with what I've learned from you, I realize a lot of it is kind of marketing. You know, I I see through it a lot easier. What are your thoughts around people, like, calling products toxic? Oh, okay. So that's misinformation. Tell me more. Okay. So toxicity is determined by the dose and the how you're exposed to it. Oh, and the yeah. Yeah. So that's what creates the poison. It's actually not the substance itself. It's the same thing like you said. Water with the right dose and how you're exposed to it becomes toxic. Same with everything else. We all like, you salt your food. Right? Mhmm. Same. The best and how it's used. Yep. Yeah. Like, if you put that whole if you were to ingest that whole shaker and nobody go and do this because I don't wanna show up to your court hearing. If you ate that, like, you could kill yourself. And, again, how it's ingested. If you shoot that in your vein, you're definitely gonna die. So that's very interesting thing versus it rinsing off your head down a drain. Exactly. So legally, and this is again a worldwide thing, no proven toxic ingredients can be used in hair care or cosmetics anywhere. Now people's will say opinion or beliefs around what is and what is not toxic, you know, varies all over the place. But the regulatory bodies Have to go on evidence. Mhmm. And you so it all has to be evidence based, and then they have to use that. So seeing that something is is toxic, it once you know a little bit more about toxicity and how cosmetics come together and you know, have a basic understanding of regulations, No. And I don't know. I know that's gonna ruffle some people the long way or the wrong way because you've got so Committed to This the same way Anna had to go through that grieving process. I know there are people who have gotten so committed to this, like, clean lifestyle. And, honestly, like you said, there is a plethora of reasons to fall to to devote yourself to something like that. And if that still is in alignment for you, beautiful. But it personally brought me a ton of peace when you shared that information with me. I'm just gonna use an example, and I won't use a brand again. Just keep it, you know, your wishes with that. But I remember this was a couple years ago. There was a thing circulating around on Facebook about, like, a plug in, like, scent thing and how it's, like, super Super Toxic, and it kinda freaked me out. I had those in my house, and I know I've heard people. And I don't know if your feelings have changed on this at all because it's been a long time since we talked, but you said things really aren't allowed to be on the market that are toxic, Lisa. Like, that So those are those can take an interesting turn, though, because if you have, like, 1 in a room, you know, that's how it's, like, intended to be used. Uh-huh. But let's say you you put them in every single outlet In your house? Uh-huh. And you could be, like, overexposing yourself. Okay. Could be Not be good for you or your help. Okay. Interesting. So you can always, like, take something. We'll say too far. Too Far. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm. But, again, in your digging and what you've uncovered is that Is it fair to say currently in the hair and beauty industry, you cannot think of anything specific that is feeling toxic second that you would not use yourself. Correct. Like, you went looking for that. You were open to finding that that and fully getting on board with it, and that you couldn't find it. I was on a hunt. That's so fascinating. And then my hunt just got completely Turned Upside Down. I love talking about this with you, and I really love and I just want people to hear this. You could find that if you are consuming brand content because they are gonna tell you how their competitors are dangerous or this. But once Anna removed the bias Espromit. Removed the brand from it and went to a chemistry level. It's a whole different story FAIR. Hey. Okay. And I also want to just point out that, like, you know, you go into, like, just like I did. You go into, like, looking for clean ingredients. You go into, like, avoiding toxic ingredients with the best of intentions. Like, If this is your concern, you have good intentions. You have good morals. You want the best for yourself, your family, your clients and everybody else around you. So I I just really want to highlight that because everybody who's, like, in this is Is Anna from love? Totally. And I think if this is landing with you if this isn't landing with you, literally turn it off and keep doing what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with but if this is landing with you, what I find is very interesting is Anna didn't just ditch that desire to find what really feels right to her. She just shifted it, and she was like, okay. It is environmental. It is humanitarian. It is all these other things, but when she really dove into chemistry, it wasn't ingredients. It was not ingredients. Okay. Also too if you're somebody who's, like, doing a lot of research I just want to, like, encourage you to seek out, like, cosmetic chemistry resources and that kind of information. So I have a a link. I actually have a page on my website that I call Resource Hub. I'll link it in the show notes. Yeah. And that resource hub has a bunch of different resources that you can go and check out. And don't just use that as, like, your Stopping Point. Feel free to use that as, like, a place to, like, grow and expand. Like, I see this resource. What I'll like, if you wanna dig deeper, dig deeper and just use it as a starting point if you're really into, like, doing the research because I I put some of my favorites in there. You know A place where I like to know and refer to and, like, where I learn learn a lot of stuff from. And I put that together because this information Was originally so hard to find. Yeah. Like I said, I was years. You have spent years researching this. And I previously, I spent years googling this and just coming up to dead ends and not knowing where to get the The information that I was creating. Mhmm. Now is there, I'm curious, almost like a curtain, like, the same way us as hairstylists listening to this. Sorry to those of you that aren't hairstylists listening to this. There's a bit of a curtain of when you step in the supply shop. The prices are different than what clients see. Like, there's a lot of things that clients don't get to know about that we know about, and it should be that way. The same way my dad does HVAC, he should be able to get parts and stuff for way cheaper so that he can wholesale them. Did you find that there's that in chemistry? Like, how did you get into that, like, next layer, or does that not really exist the same way it does for us? I mean, I I felt like I'm more like smashed through a wall. Okay. I came through a curtain. Yeah. Just because the information was so different. And it took like I said, it like we had said previously, it really took me a long time to, like, accept it, Get Over My Hurt Feelings and start, like, critically thinking about it. Mhmm. And because all from all the beliefs that had been ingrained from marketing your whole life. Yes. And I realized that I wasn't really critically thinking about it before. And then when these other points were brought up, I'm like, Oh, yeah. It wouldn't make sense if, like, I'm just gonna say, like, L'Oreal, for example Mhmm. Was putting in ingredients that would slowly kill their customers. Like, Well, who would buy the products after they do that? But capitalism has made us believe that that is just how the world is run. There's is the next bad thing out to get you. And that's why I find the information that you've uncovered, it gives me peace. It makes me feel better, and then you just get to make informed decisions from there. Like you said, it all boils back down to what your values are and what's important to you. Yes. And that's my goal is to bring people peace and to or, yeah, to bring people peace and to align styles with their values, But also to help you, like, up level your conversations behind the chair. Mhmm. Because You're not just spewing the same thing you've heard that where none of us are getting the results because it's not really that like you said, if you critically think about it, it's not really sound information. Exactly. Or when I was working behind the chair, I had I had a handful of ladies that were root touch up clients. I, like, Loved my Root Touch Up clients. Mhmm. And their hair color kept fading, and they were literally following all of my instructions to the And then when I found out that, like, it wasn't the shampoos or the sulfates that was fading their color, yeah, we turned them around in 1 appointment. So how'd you turn them around? You figured out it was water. What do you do different? I just said well, then I started digging into, like, okay. Well, what is your routine? Mhmm. Because 1 woman had stopped she was washing and conditioning her hair every day. And then I'm like, okay. Well, you know, spread it out. So she started doing that, and it was still she would come back from a level 7, and she would come in like a level 9. And I'm like, I don't understand. It's, like, you're using sulfate free shampoo. Now you're washing your hair, like, twice a week versus every day. I'm like, what is the problem? And then it turns out she was still getting into the shower every single day, getting her hair wet, putting conditioner on it, Rinsing it out. And, like, you would the shampoo was the culprit, and all of us would think that as well. And but, like, she eliminated the shampoo most of the time. Just as you and you would sink it out with the water, and It was a lot. So if she just kept her hair dry for those stretches in between, she wouldn't have had that same issue. Exactly. So we started, you know, we figured that out and instant success. Wow. That is so fascinating. I literally thought of my mother-in-law instantly because she's the same way. She has to wash her hair every day, but I think she said, my mother-in-law has an interesting hair care routine, and I do hair. Kim, I love you if you're ever listening to this. Just gotta preface with that. She washes her hair in the sink in the morning over her kitchen sink. Her mom does it too. It's just what they've always done. And then she showers every night to wash off the day. You know? But when she wakes up in the morning, she said she has such bad bed head. She has to wash her hair every morning before she goes to work. But she also has, like, hard water at her house, and she's blonde. So we're always fighting against this, like, orange that comes through. Yeah. And on this bang piece right here, It's Like Super Orange. We keep Malibu ing it. We keep fighting through it, but we discovered that it's because she's showering so many times. And then what even when she's not washing her hair in the shower, she's pushing this wet hair out of her face over and over again, getting that spot wet. Yep. And so, yeah, it's just I love that. Instead of just what's another thing I can sell you, which I know is none of our intention, but we're we're trying to give solutions. Solve our problem. Yeah. Yes. But you said get a little bit Deeper. It's not always a product that solves the problem. Sometimes it's the routine, the behaviors, things like that. A hundred percent. And I'm sure everybody has figured that out, like, with 1 of their clients on something else because we all We do this all day. Yeah. Okay, Anna. So people are listening to this. You probably blew a lot of minds. I can't wait to have the Clips to share on social media. I feel like this is gonna be really good clickbait, but it's not even really bait because it's actually just conversations that people aren't happen having, and it makes me really excited to share that with the industry. How are you helping hairstylists right now? If people are listening to this, what what's your medium to help spread this message to people? Okay. So right now, what I have is I've started assembling a library of I call them product line reviews. We're we talked about this a little bit earlier when we were talking about aligning with your values and a brand. So so I have gone through some, you know, profe professional hair care lines. Not Yeah. I'm only doing professional hair care lines. K. Because that's what hairstylists are gonna back bar anyway. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. So I go through And I review a brand's, like, about me page, and I basically review their whole website. And I take the clips, you know, like, the highlights, And then I break those down. Like, what does this mean from a behind the scenes perspective? Mhmm. And then I share that. And The goal with these product line reviews is just to give you, like, a deeper insight into the brand's values to help you line up With a Brand. Love it. You know, that meets your values. All of the reviews come with a free from translation. So Okay. If the brand says we're free from x y z ingredients, I'll tell you here's the ingredient. Here's its function. Not like this is good or bad or Mhmm. Toxic or any of that stuff. Like Yeah. Ingredient function. So you get a translation of that. You also get 2 versions of the review. You get a mini version and then a full version. Because some people need all the information. Some people get overwhelmed by that. Exactly. And and just know, like, it goes the information that's on each review is based off of the information that is on each brand's website. So some of them are quite lengthy, and some of them are Sure. Depends on what the brand gives. Yes. And then are you still breaking down the ingredient list as well, or is it just the free from list? Just a free from list. Doing the whole ingredient list can get to be It's a lot of information. A lot. Yeah. I mean, if you want that, you please. I'm happy to do it for you. Send you know, just send me an email, and I will do that for But like we said, we've come to the realization that the ingredients don't change a whole lot about the product. Well, the story ingredients don't change a whole lot about the product, but I think together. Yes. Yes. Us. And you can then share, you know, these celebrity ingredients, these story ingredients. And I like you did on that reel that when I was it's like, hey. Talk about this. You were like, it does help with this. It does help with this. It's not like it's hurting anything, but the main thing here is it's a story and that we get to market with that. Yes. Yeah. Love that. Also so yeah. So I have product line reviews. I have a bunch of them done. But if there's 1 I don't have done that you want, let me know, and I'll do it up for you. My turnaround's about a week. Yeah. Also, if you don't want to purchase a product line review, I do have a free resource called a product line guide. Love. So you it just guides you on doing this yourself. Cool. Awesome. So I'm so excited about this and I'm sure there's gonna be a ton of people. So if you are listening to this and you're like, I wanna know more about the products that are sitting on my shelf right now that I'm selling to my clients, or I'm moving salons, or I'm opening on my own suite or something, and I'm trying to decide what wanting to bring in. That's a big investment. That's a big decision. I think running it with through Anna and making sure that you align with those values is is probably a good place to start. Yeah. Absolute I mean, that is the goal and intention. The other, like, side effect from it is You are just going to get, like, straight unbiased information from a source who's not trying to sell to you because And this is paid by the company. Yeah. I I don't care if you purchase the product or not. Like, that's Oh. That's your decision to make. It's called translating the label for a reason. It's like Anna went and learned another language, and now she gets to be our translator. And I think that's really cool, and I love that you're helping stylists in that way. So I will put your website. I will put all the ways to get in touch with Anna in the show notes of this. Do you have any final thoughts before we wrap up? Oh, yeah. So My whole goal with all of this is really just to is to up level the stylist and help you to be not just a person that does somebody's hair, but I want all of you to be seen as, like, a true hair care expert Yeah. Which the marketing information Isn't Sometimes helps you be that. Sometimes you end up stuck, and you you can't find a solution. And this might Yeah. And answering those questions that you weren't previously able to answer. Yep. Love it. Cool. Thank you so much, Anna. Thank you everybody for listening. Ning. Like I said, all the information will be in the show notes, and I will talk to you guys next week. Bye.