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Welcome to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff. Over the last five years, I've coached hundreds of hairstylists and beauty industry professionals, helping them work their dream schedules exclusively with their dream clientele, and earn their dream income. income, all while fostering genuine connections and lifelong friendships inside the beauty industry. And this podcast, we dive deep into abundance, manifestation, business building strategies, and creating a life that you are truly proud of both behind the chair and at home. Are you ready to embark on a journey of personal growth, success, and sisterhood then hit that subscribe button now and get ready to experience the pure magic of Silas Old Tribe conversations. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to Skyla Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm so happy you're here today. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to everybody listening. Hi. Hi, Lisa. Thank you for having me. I'm Jamie Rogers. In Silas Soul Tribe from the beginning, kind of. Forever, it feels like, huh. Thank you for having me. Yeah obviously I know your whole story. I wanna preface, I, I told Jamie this before we started recording, but for everybody listening, this episode specifically, I can almost guarantee you, is going to have nothing to do with business. While Jamie is very smart and intelligent around business, her story, Personally, is so much more inspiring, valuable, unbelievable that it would be a wasted episode to talk anything about business. So just buckle up. I'm just warning you. If you were looking for something to inspire you to, like, make more money or upgrade your business, like, this is the episode. Yeah, if you're dying for, like in this moment, I couldn't be. Less, like, into being a go getter if I tried. Yeah, and I want to hear that whole entire journey. So obviously, Jamie, I know you so well. Jamie has been in and out of Soul Tribe since day one. She is one of the OGs. She left Soul Tribe for a little bit and then came back. But I don't know I mean, I guess I know everyone in the OGs really well, but maybe it's just because your story is so special and so unique. I feel like I know you on a different level. Like, maybe because you allow me to go there, maybe because we've just had those really deep dive conversations. So I pretend like you're not necessarily talking to me because obviously I know your story. Talking to everyone else, tell them a little bit about who you are and start to tell your story and then we'll go from there. Okay, well, you definitely know me on a deeper level because when I started Stylus Soul Tribe, the first go around. One of the first things that came up for me to do or I was doing, you know, because you introduced it to me was Miracle morning. Mm hmm, and I was in a really really bad space Mentally and emotionally and I've been in bad spaces before But this was this was different. This was just super deep this involved my Super close family, my mom and my sister and it having to work through things in our relationship. Yeah, and I would definitely, yes, for sure, yes. And it was just on, I was on fire with it. And that's when I joined Soul Tribe and you had mentioned about Miracle Morning and I was definitely not in the place to focus on work. I needed to focus on myself first and I did. And I started a practice of that every morning and what I think gave me the ability to be open to that, now we'll rewind, is 20, when I was 22 years old, I got clean and sober. Cocaine was my drug of choice. I weighed about 90 pounds when I went into rehab. I had a TIA, which is a mini stroke, when I was three days clean, and My mom moved to Florida in the time I was in rehab and When I got out I needed to find somewhere to live and I did I lived with strangers off of Craigslist The first one was a guy and he was super nice Jehovah Witness God, maybe that was good. Yeah, and then I had a roommate Jen after that Who's still one of my dearest friends, but she was a stranger Mm hmm I had no idea how to work and deal with the city. I was working in Manhattan at the time. Well, this is a few months in. Yeah. I got a job in Manhattan working in property management doing the phones. And then I worked at night doing co check. And I'd get a jar of sauce and a box of pasta, and that's what I had for the week. Hmm. And let's see. I had to ask Kevin, my husband now, who was my boyfriend then How I knew which train to take, how I knew if I had to go on the uptown train or the downtown train, it goes well, if the number is higher than where you are, you want to go uptown. Like, it's really that simple. And no idea. Yeah. Yeah, so it was really that simple. Okay, pause, because obviously this is your story, so you know the whole big picture, and I'm trying to get somebody listening. Yeah, I'm gonna keep interrupting you. So she said she was 22 when she got clean and sober, and you just hit the 22 year anniversary of that. So just to give some context to this timeline, somebody's like, are you 25 right now? Are you 70? Like, what? You know, so to give some context, yeah, 22 years ago, you've lived a lot of life. Can you go back even a little bit more, maybe, if you're comfortable with it? We also were, I'm just gonna be transparent with everybody listening to this, and I think it's important for people to think about this when they're listening to podcast episodes. It takes a lot to share, like, a deep dive into your story like Jamie is doing. I know, because I've shared some deep dives into my own story, and I'm really mindful of, like, my digital footprint. I'm really mindful of when I tell stories about my life, and especially if it has to do with other people. Like, that podcast is going to live on the internet forever. You know, sure, I could delete it, but, like, I'm just very thoughtful of that. And so I want Jamie to be thoughtful of that as well. Would you mind going back a little bit into, like, active addiction? Maybe when you met Kevin, how that all came about, just so we can get a little bit of an even more clear picture. Absolutely. So my addiction came from, it's actually quite a few different things. I wasn't a big drinker. I wasn't drunk when I was 12. I, you know, my mom's liquor cabinet, like I don't, that's not my story. So taking it to a few places.'cause I think all of them are actually pretty important. Yeah. There's a history of sexual assault in my family, not by a family member, but within my family. Mm-Hmm. And there's a history of abandonment in my family. Me especially, yeah. With my stepfather. And that goes on to another story. And then there's also, on a different level, so that's like the emotional part, right? Mm hmm. When I was super young my mom would drop me off in kindergarten, and I would cut kindergarten. Okay? I would walk home and make eggs. And And nobody was home? Nobody was home. You were five years old. She'd drop you off at your sneaky, ditch school. Yes, I didn't want to be at school and I would watch soap operas and make eggs and it got to the point where the school nurse and the police, yeah, would show up at my house to get me. So that's how my mom became an entrepreneur who anything she decides to do work wise turns to gold. But anyway, that's how she started working at home. So I've had. Major ADD from when I was little. Cutting school and kindergarten. School just wasn't for you. You've known from as long as you can remember back. It was not for me. So, when I was young. I love the social aspect of it. Not the learning so much. So when I was young, I don't remember what grade I was in. But definitely elementary school. I was diagnosed with ADD. And I was put on Ritalin. And I remember the feeling of It working like it feeling like focus and I just remember the feeling of it and then something must have actually been wrong if this medicine. Yes, we feel normal. Yeah, or whatever. You didn't even know what normal was back then. Yeah. Yes. And then things happened within my family. My family imploded, and that fell to the wayside. Mm. And then I, we started moving all the time. Mm-Hmm. And I was a new kid. I, I changed schools. One school I kept coming back to, so it's not actually eight schools, but I changed schools eight times from eighth grade to 10th grade. Wow. And, and now I'm not on meds or anything like that. I started smoking cigarettes super young. I was never into alcohol. Do you feel like back then, like, nicotine was almost like Well, Gave you hocus in the same way, because it's a stimulant? Yes, and that was my last drug that I gave up. I smoked for like 25 years. And, To fast forward to that, when, now I'm clean and whatever and I'm smoking cigarettes, I have my kids and I didn't want to be a smoking mom and I, I quit smoking and I ended up in the psychiatrist's office, like, in a breakdown, like, this is not just normal quitting, something is wrong and I told him about the ADD briefly and he was like, well, let's look into that more. And okay. So we did all these tests now I'm a recovered coke head. So the medication for ADD is. It scares me because stimulants. Yeah, right. However, it's what was needed. And he said that was why I was so drawn to it. Because initially it's like, Oh, this feels like kind of fixes those that normal imbalance. Yeah. And then of course, you know, I took it to an extreme and whatever. But so there's the emotional part of like, just not knowing what to do with myself. And then there was a big, huge part of like the psychological The medicines had I been medicated who knows if where that would have went, you know I mean that would change my whole story and I wouldn't want to change anything in my story But I know a lot of parents just from being in the salon You know we'll talk about this with their kids and not wanting to medicate them and whatever and I'll give them a heads up just Letting you know if they get their hands on, you know, if they truly have a problem and they get their hands on stimulants, be prepared for them to be addicted to them. Wow. So now I'm off track. So that, that's where the addiction came from. I could have gone off track with you. I just stopped myself. I could have gone even deeper down that, but I don't think that that would be necessary. Okay. Tell us maybe your, you meeting Kevin cause you met him in like the deep, deep, dark part of your addiction. So Kevin. And I have the ultimate love story. I don't know what I would do without my husband. I absolutely adore him. So, when I was in rehab, when I was three days clean, I was smoking a cigarette outside, and my everything started, like, tingling. Like, from my head down to my legs. And my face fell and I started walking to the nurse and I couldn't continue the walk to the nurse's office. And I would just lost all movement in the left side of my body. And I was terrified and somebody else that was there, you know, got the nurse or whatever. And they sent me in an ambulance to the hospital. And I had a TIA, which is a mini stroke. And there was a nurse that was working in the hospital. I don't know her name. I don't remember anything about her. She said she was a black woman and she was super nice. And she stayed next to my bed and she prayed on rosaries, jubilee rosaries they were called. And The next day everything and now I'm wasn't raised under any religion. So this was like a foreign thing for me and the next day Everything had come back. My face had come back My mom's going from Florida and was there the next day very briefly Like I just saw her for a little bit and then they sent me back to rehab. Okay, so I get back to The rehab and now the nurse left those rosaries. I never saw her again, but she left the rosaries next to my bed and I still have them in a box on my shelf. I went back to the rehab and now I'm just like happy to be alive, you know, at 22 years old, you know, whatever. I wanted to be in rehab. I wanted desperately to be there. I just waited for some, I was waiting for somebody to pay attention to notice. I was so skinny. It was unbelievable. Like zeros fell off of me. It was unbelievable. And like that's something that is a topic that's completely off for discussion. Like when it comes to certain people in my family is like weight and stuff like that. Like that's not up for discussion. Anyway, trigger for you. Yeah. Very much so. And So I come back and everyone, you know, had been praying for me when I was in the hospital. And I walk up to this guy sitting at the table. I hadn't seen him. And Hey, I'm Jamie. What's your name? Kevin, in his deep voice, not wanting to, you know, talk. Huh? I can't understand what you're saying. Kevin. Dude, I, I can't. You're like marbles. Kevin! He screams at me. I'm like, you don't have to yell. All right, I got it. Kevin, nice to meet you. And he goes to pick up his, his fruit punch. And this was in rehab or this was at the hospital? This was in rehab. Okay, Kevin was in rehab too. Okay. Yes, he had come in the time I was gone. Okay, and he goes to pick up his juice. And yes, this is not, you know, no one would suggest dating somebody in rehab, but whatever. I mean, this is a true story. Let's hear it. Yes, this is a true story. So, he goes to pick up his juice and he has the shakes. So bad that it's Assuming his, his problem was alcohol. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, this guy's fucked up. You know, I just stroked out. Who am I to judge, you know? And he loved me from hello. He followed me around. Once he had. Now, I was, I had no, I had a boyfriend who was a fireman who was awful who was so much older than me and whatever. And that was more of like a daddy issue relationship. And Kevin was just my friend. Like, we were in a group together. We knew the absolute worst. About each other that you could possibly know is sitting in group therapy and rehab And I got out before him because I was there sooner I'm gonna heal you would say that when I walked in like oh, this is the girl we've been praying for all this time okay, and He was my friend when we got out he Brought me things that mattered like I had to find a job. I didn't have anything. My mom was like I sold the house You have a month before the new people move in to find somewhere to live. She moved to Florida. She was gone to find somewhere to live and I, I was a disaster because the hardest time of my entire life was getting through that. And then my boyfriend at the time, the fireman person had cheated on me and the girl showed up at my door. Yikes. Yeah. So then I was devastated, you know, cause I was devastated over every relationship that I've had. Cause I, The more you were not interested, the more I loved you. Yeah. And Kevin would Show up with a coffee pot because I didn't have a coffee pot. He would get me pizza delivered to my apartment and I couldn't afford to go and buy a pizza, you know? Like things that mattered and he lived in the Bronx and yes. He lived in the Bronx and I lived on Long Island and the best gift ever was an E Z Pass. Because I couldn't afford the tolls and I would sit in traffic forever to get there. So the E Z Pass was the greatest gift ever. And we were friends for like a year and I made a pass at him first and he rejected me and I was like, oh my gosh. You're gay! Like, I didn't know! I was like No? He was probably trying to follow the rules. You're not supposed to date someone you meet in rehab. He told me, I don't think it was a full year. I feel like a year is when we became a couple, so maybe like six months or something. He thought, we should give it more time. He said, I have loved you since day one, and you're not ready for this, and you will destroy me, and I want this to be for real, and We can't be for real until you're ready for this. And then our first kiss was at the Jersey Shore. Oh my gosh. Random one night. And that rosary from the nurse. I wore as my something old on our wedding day. Oh, that's really beautiful. Like Kevin, you know, my, I would park like how I was saying, I didn't know how to go uptown, downtown. I got my sister's hand me down car and I would park in Jackson Heights and Queens. At the train and I didn't know what I was doing. I was disaster. I was always late, you know hours late So I would just park wherever I didn't matter what the sign said clearly they were just for show Yeah, until I got home, you know late at night because now I'd go from Work in an office to a restaurant doing code check. So I'm getting home at like midnight and it was right after 9 11 So the cops were all in the subways with like the big huge guns and whatever which actually made me feel like really safe yeah, and my car would be towed and What like clearly it was stolen like it couldn't have been towed and I called Kev and he was at a ranger game with his brother and I'm like my car is gone and I'm a disaster and And he left the ranger game to come and, and help me, you know, I had reached out to my mom and she's like, Oh, I don't know what to tell you. Good luck. And he called around and found my car and it was, you know, 10 at the time was a hundred. So a few hundred to get my car was a million, you know, like I did not, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did not have it. And, he helped me with those things. He didn't help me with, like, frivolous things. He helped me with things that were really important. That helped you get on your feet and have you be in a position where you could continue to work on yourself and stay clean. And now he's also working on his beginning of sobriety as well, you know? So one frivolous story. This is a drug story. The boyfriend had bought me a digital camera, right at the end of my partying days. And I sold it for drugs. And, you know, he didn't know I sold it for drugs. That was my last night out. I'll never forget that night. And I told, he was coming over. And it was for my birthday and he bought me a printer for the camera. Camera's gone. I don't have the camera. Mm-Hmm. And I'm like, it's right. You can sell the printer in a few days. What am I supposed to do, What am I supposed to do? Yeah. Like, how do I, and he went out and bought me the camera so I didn't have to tell him Aw. That I had sold it. Aw. Yeah. So that's the kind of guy Kevin is and our. to watch our daughters grow up in a household of parents that just love each other so much. Yeah. And who are sober, like there's Not, you know, has been like living in a social experiment at my teenage daughters you know, we're supposed to not like them at this point or whatever. I adore my kids so much and they have so much respect for our life and they ask you a question just out of my own curiosities. How Have you guys shared your stories with the kids? Cause honestly, we haven't, like, majorly crossed into that yet. We don't not share it, but we haven't fully gone there. And I'm wondering at what age and how you went about that. From day one. Yes. I have lived. And sorry, mom, if you hear this, but I grew up in a house of lies. You know, different times, right? Just whatever, different times. That's true. Yeah. The things that you don't realize were ever going to come to fruition in society have, you know, become possible now. So, no judgment on it, but, you know I wouldn't, never wanted to do that to my kids. I never wanted to have to go back onto something that, I had told them and it's a different story like the reality is a different story and it's I started telling them about that like that we don't drink alcohol right away and then honestly the reality of it like how we met each other and everything. Yeah. I want to say Nat was maybe like 10. Young, they were. I'm proud of it. It's not like when people will comment on like social like. You should be so proud. Yeah, totally proud. 100 percent great. My favorite story of all time is Kevin and I I I never saw my addiction as being this awful person like I just I guess I, I'm, again, being mindful of digital print thinking about where I want to go, I'm just going to share it, whatever. I mean, my kids are still young, 7 and 11, and we definitely have never lied about anything. They know that there's stuff there, but Ryan has said, I'm just not ready to share it. I'll share when you get older, but Ryan has also been to prison, and so there's been, like, things that have come up where it's been like, oh, bad guys go to jail, or like, there's only bad guys in prison, like, We have a hard time navigating that because it's like, Yeah. No, this guy right here has actually had that story, but He's trying, and we've had these conversations, I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, we've had these conversations of like, do we save that for the age that they start? Okay, so, well, okay, so yes, with that, it was much easier to address alcohol with them, like, as far as drugs, I mean, my sister in law died of an overdose a few years ago, and so we had, I don't remember how old they were, but I want to say, and Natalie is 16 now, so I want to say she was at least 11 or 12, like, it just came, it just, when it felt right, it happened, you know? I think we've had a few of those moments where we were like, we could go there right now, should we? And that's when Ryan would say, give me a little bit, like, so they know that there's a story there, they do know that. So I think that Ryan still has some shame in that. And that's why he's not ready for that. Okay, so on another topic of this, and secrets and all of that stuff, you know, I was raised thinking my stepfather was my father. Yeah, let's get into that story, because we are like 30 minutes in, and okay, let me just say this real quick, so you guys are all probably listening, I'm hoping, you're like, you know, oh my god, I could listen to Jamie talk for days, because that's how I feel, but I'm not even, can you guys, we haven't even gotten to like, the part of the story that I'm like, your life is a literal movie, what is going on? So, Bed of Lies, look how the world has evolved and what, what has That's a huge part, okay? Yeah, yeah. So, when I was I want to say I was like 10. I don't remember exactly how old I was, but I think I was like 10 years old. Although my stepfather seems to remember me younger, because we were just talking about it recently. I axed my older sister. How come there's no pictures of dad in my baby book? And she responded with, he's not your real dad. Simple as that. Oh going back, I, I don't remember things that were said, but I, I noticed this just throughout like the course of things. I remember how I felt with moments. And I remember feeling that doesn't mean you're not gonna like be my dad anymore, right? Like I loved my dad. I was a Daddy's girl. I did everything. I loved my dad. I had no interest in him not being my father I was never someone who was like, oh, you're not my real dad anyway. Mm hmm, and I have a very hard time with some clients Or, you know, friends or whatever that are in this kind of situation with their kids and it not being You know, lying to their kids about who their parents are. I think kids are so much more able to take something at face value and process it. And it, it's not attached to all this negative stuff that adults attach it to. They see it black and white. They don't have a history. They don't have all those stories, all that shame. No. Wow, that's a really good point. They don't have hang ups that are making it. skewed, right? So the longer you wait, the more skewed the story becomes, right? And now you're a liar. Now you've told all these stories. I mean, there were like fake things written in my baby book. Anyway, I love my dad. So when I found that out, it was Oh, but it was never, oh, like, you're, you know, screw you or anything like that at all. No, if anything, it was almost like, oh gosh, you're not leaving me, are you? Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And then things happened in our family and I did lose him. Mm hmm. He made some really not nice choices we've worked through that, so I'm not gonna throw him under the bus, but it was horrendous he never, like, did anything to me, like, for sure, every family has their deep, deep stuff, yeah but just, you know, abandonment, and he is my younger sister's dad, so he would still come to get My sister, you know, I, I went from having a huge family tons of cousins and aunts and uncles and whatever to nobody, to just my mom. And. My older sister joined the military and was gone, and my younger sister lived with her dad a lot of the time. And that was, like, it. Like, Christmas was, that was done. And, like, all those things, you know? So, fast forward to He comes to visit me, my stepfather, in rehab with his dad. His dad was a really good man. He's since passed away, but my grandfather and sat him down and said, I know you are here because of my son. He had nothing to say, my stepfather had nothing to say, but my grandfather dragged him along through that. And we have really, really had it out. And I have I've held that fucking guy accountable for everything and that's why we're good. Mm hmm. That's why we're good. If I didn't, if I let things just like go, I would have so much resentment and I don't because I literally hold them accountable for everything. Yeah. So anyway, so fast forward, here it takes another turn and I have a client who is into genealogy. And, you know, I'm telling her my mom moved to America from Australia when she was pregnant with me eight months pregnant with me. My dad and my mom were not a relationship, you know, I mean. If for anyone out there that wants to have any ounce of judgment, you are so full of shit and just lucky you didn't get pregnant. Go away. Yeah. If you did, you probably would have made the opposite choice because I can't say I would have made the same decision my mom made, which was incredibly brave to keep a daughter on her own. So just had to put that disclaimer out there. So my mom moves to America pregnant with me. My grandparents were here for something, but she was from Australia. And. Yeah. So I have a client. I, you know, I would daydream about who my dad was, but it was so, like, far gone and Australia is like the other, you know, literally the other, another planet, especially back then, you know, and And would you ask your mom questions and she genuinely had no idea who it was or do you think she might have knew or? I would, I don't want to get too much into my mom, but I would ask her questions. And. She didn't have anything to tell me. You took matters into your own hands, which we have the ability to do now, and, and just finish. And if somebody didn't ask me about it, or tell me about, like, the DNA thing, I don't know, yeah, I don't know if I would have done it, you know? It was still new then, so I can't say, you know? So, I probably would have actually, but who am I kidding? Eventually. So, yeah. But it's not like it had been on your mind for a long time and you were awaiting it. You just never even thought about it. I, I thought about it the most after I had my kids. Okay. After I had Natalie, my older one, it really came to the surface with me. And I, I wanted to know that's why you want to know family medical history. You want to know where I love this baby so much. Like, where did I come from? What is a piece of her? I totally understand that. And that that brought up the anger with me that too, for the first time, you know, before. I, I took this on. This was very much my mom's story, you know, and I just kind of went with it and respected her in that regard and then took ownership of this myself. So I do my DNA and it sits on a website. And for anyone out there doing DNA, you can Do it so say you do it on ancestry you can save the data that you get on Ancestry and you can upload that on to all the other sites So you don't have to do a DNA test per site. Sometimes. I don't think people realize that I don't know that So I saved it and I went in and oh my client Recommended my mom do it also. So when I get a response, I know if it's maternal or paternal. So she does it. And I save her data as soon as I get it, like scared she's going to change her mind and be like, forget it. So sorry, mom, I stole your data. And I put it on a few sites. And I get I hit, like, a few years in to somebody related to my dad, like, cousin wise, or whatever. Super nice guy we have no idea, though. I don't know who my cousins have slept with and who they possibly Super distant, yeah. Yeah. So I was happy and content if he was the only person that I found. Was that cousin in Australia? He was really nice. No. Okay. So my dad, hold on, dad's going to jump ahead. So one day, I'm sitting on the couch in April, I don't remember the year now, just 2020, everything just turned into one year. It was definitely past 20, because it was right, like, coming up to the retreat, I want to say it was 2022. 2020, 2022, yes, because it'll be two years this April. God, what a short time, right? So, I We're watching TV, and it goes to commercial, and Kevin gets up to go to the bathroom, and for whatever reason, no idea why, I don't have any notification or anything, I open up MyHeritage, which is one of the better apps for Overseas. Ancestry's things for overseas, by the way. Okay. So, I open it up, and there's a match on there. And this is right after Soul Tribe Retreat. Okay? I, I think like a few weeks. Very short after. You just did some like deep personal growth. Deep, deep, deep. I met Kristen, who plays a huge part in this story. Yeah, deep. And, and made some connections that I so needed, which I've been terrible at maintaining. I realized just how much of an introvert I am. Yeah, but I yeah, I need to get out of that. I needed desperately at that time. It's just all aligned. So I open it up and I have a match on there. And it says that this person is either my uncle or my brother. And based off of his age, clearly he is my uncle. So I sent him a message. Hi, probably super surprised to see this. Your brother doesn't know that I exist, so this isn't something that is a secret that he has kept or anything like that, you know. My mom moved to America when she was eight months pregnant with me. They met at a place called the Village Green in Melbourne. That's where they used, or Melbourne, if you're Australian. That's where they hung out. If I'm gonna cause any problems in the family, in a marriage. I'm not interested in doing that. I don't want to break up like somebody's family. So please let me know if that is the case because I do not want to pursue this if it is. Yeah. That was a big one for me, you know, I, I didn't know and you know, whatever. So, I the girls in Soul Tribe go down this black hole and literally have my entire family line. All the detectives got to work. My whole family line figured out by, like, the end of the day. That's so funny. And, you know, it was definitely weird with my mom. She Fair. was not prepared for this to become a thing. Yeah. You know and this is where I go back with your husband where it's because there's a shame there, you know, and I see it as, Oh my God, you made like a choice to have A child, like, on your own, like, that's the bravest thing ever. Yeah, like, I'm not judging you, Mom. Like, yeah, like, what? And whoever is, who cares? You know? But she took it to that place, you know? And we had to really work through that. Yeah. So April, I don't remember the dates. I'm going to try to pretend I do, but I don't I do this energy work with Kristen sitting outside of going in for a biopsy on my boob or to get it back, to get the results back. And that was the only time like we could do it. And so I do this call with her and I needed to let go of this. anger and stuff with my mom. Like, I didn't want to be in that space and I just needed it to go away. Yeah. And so we worked through it and Kristen took this picture of these crazy, like, sun rays and stuff going on. And I go home after this appointment and Kevin and I are watching TV and I'm laying on the floor and now I have the notification set on this app, right? And I get a message. Hi Janie my name is Joseph McClelland. I live in Australia, so my dad was one and basically, I'm your biological father. Yeah, based on what my brother has shared with me, yeah. My dad moved to Australia from Scotland when he was 18. He's the only one that lives in Australia. So there's four brothers, and that's how they knew it was him, because he's the only one that lives there. And he spent some time at that place you mentioned. Still lives in the same neighborhood. Wow. Like, he showed me the village green when I went there. Where you were conceived. It still exists. It's still like, I, I think they at least went to an apartment. The place is still there. It's like wild. Meanwhile, I've been like all over the place, you know, and he still lives in the same place. And Oh, my God, my whole body started tingling. I'm like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I get and I just keep repeating, Oh, my God, I can't. And Kevin's like, What? And I was like, Did someone die? What's going on? Yeah. Like it was on fire. I was like, I got a letter from my dad. And he's What? And I just start crying and my daughters come out and this is where I'm so grateful I've always been honest with them. They know the depth of it because it's not like, oh, by the way Whatever. No, they've known yeah, and they got to come along this whole journey with me For real, you know like so we talked the first time was May 21st We emailed back and forth a little bit And the first time we talked on the phone was May 21st. And we got along, I'm gonna cry. Like he was my dad, like, you know, he, we talked the first night and then he called in the morning. So that was like late at night for them because they're literally upside down time wise. And I'm leaving for work and he's caught and I'm like, Oh my god, he's calling me again. I'm gonna talk twice. And he's like, I just wanted to hear your voice again. And he, he was so excited. And I wasn't, I, I didn't know what I was saying. I honestly never got beyond, like, wondering what my dad looked like. And if he was A hands on person because that's the kind of person that I am and that was it like I never thought about what his personality would be like or you know if he had kids like none of that and he has a daughter and a son so I have a brother and a biological sister over there and that's it. His wife and daughter had a very hard time with this. Whatever. And he had pulled back a little bit from me. And when he called, Finally, I think it was like just a week, but honestly it felt like forever. This was so much stuff. So much life happened in that period of time. Like you were there through that. Like there were times where I called like just hysterical. Like I didn't know what to do with some of this. And the best thing that I did do was I never put that on my dad. Like I would have with a boyfriend, you know, as a teenager and in my twenties or whatever. I would have suffocated them, and I was so aware to not do that with him and give him his time and his space. But man, I was a wreck to myself, you know? And I turned to my friends and my husband, and I didn't have my mom to turn to. And I didn't have my sisters, like, cause no one could really understand what this meant for me, you know? And they still don't, you know? And, He called and I knew that this was the only opportunity. I wasn't going to miss this opportunity to tell him my dad's story. And I kind of feel like. I can't tell all of this without telling a little bit of my dad's story, but something had happened in my family when I was young, and wanna just step in. When you're referring to your dad, this is your technically stepdad, just so that people listening aren't getting confused. Technically stepdad that raised you. Yes. To you was your dad, yeah. Yes. So, when I was young something had happened in my family, and I didn't tell anybody, and then something worse happened in my family, and I carried a lot of guilt over that. And then, and then, a few years later, something happened with another person, and I told, because I didn't want anything to happen again, and carry that guilt, and he, my stepfather and, It's the person over me and married his sister and they are still married to this day and I don't care about that being out there. I think you're being vague. Yeah. Yeah. And. I told my dad this story, my biological real dad, Joe McClelland, and he cried. And after that, you know, I said to him, I go, I can handle anything that you say to me. If you decide you don't want to do this anymore, this is too much, you know, thanks, no thanks. Please just don't ghost me. I, I do so, I have such issues with being ghosted. Yeah, you're like, I've done so much work on myself to repair these wounds. Please don't. Yeah, please, please don't. And he never pulled back from me again. And he had such a hard time that he couldn't be there for me when I was little. And Just our relationship just went to a different level, you know, where some people would be like, oh, you told him that? Yeah, I told him that, that, what do you mean? I've been waiting my whole life for this. It's an integral part of who you are. Yeah. Absolutely. And I, I have just so much pride in, in the things that I did, which I don't, I don't know if I realized then, like, standing up for myself and being like, no, this happened. Like, I could have just easily said, okay, no, it didn't and got my, my stepfather and the whole family back, but it did. And I wasn't taking that back. And He, him and I just grew and we had so many similarities. We were the same person, honestly. Our, our blunt honesty with also trying not to be hurtful and being aware if we are hurtful and apologizing and whatever, like just, he was my, my spiritual twin and he had cancer prostate cancer. Right before COVID. At the same time, my older sister had cancer. That's when Jamie meets her biological dad in Australia. He already knew at that time that he was battling cancer. Yes. So how far? How long did he wait to share that with you? He told me that from the beginning so that he had prostate cancer and then In September, basically he had surgery and they didn't remove it all. There was like a piece still there or whatever. So that September, I wish I knew the years better, 2022 we said? Yeah, 2022 is when you found them. So it would have been that September. Yeah. Yeah, 2022. He told me that it had spread to his bones. And with that, I decided I was Going I had already booked a trip for Kevin and the girls. Mm hmm to go in February Yeah, and I decided I was going that was it I'll never forget it when he told me I got off the phone and I sat on the floor of my suite and just Cried like I don't remember the last time I cried so hard and I didn't ask if I could come I just Booked it. Yeah. And he was away with his family. I reached out to my brother, wanted to make sure there was nothing going on at that certain, you know, that week or whatever. Yeah. That he knew of. And he said no. And I booked the trip and he got back from vacation and I asked him are you free October 27th for lunch? Cause I'll be in the neighborhood. And he got, he was so excited. And he was so excited this whole time, you know, and was up against a wife and a daughter who were livid over this. I can't help but empathize with that, too, because you know he loves them, but I think he was really good at compartmentalizing them. He absolutely was. Like, these are two incredibly important things to me, and if you guys have feelings about it, I understand, and I love you through it, but like, this is This is what's happening. Yeah, and knowing his health like it just it wasn't time to waste I I think I've just have been around such awful men Yeah that I Couldn't imagine Taking such a good one for granted Like what a luxury to be able to take that for granted Like clearly you have no idea what it's Like to not have yeah, sorry and so I I reached out to, you know, I would talk to my brother and I'm like, so when I get there, like, you know, I'll, I'll get an Uber to the hotel or whatever. And he's like, Jamie, hold on. Do you think dad's not gonna pick you up at the airport? Like he would ride a bike to pick you up at the airport. Like, there's no way you're not getting picked up. And he had somebody record it. The video is really amazing that like honestly having that and I was a stranger because he went to the airport by himself and every time we would show up for the day we would have on the same color family shirt like we ordered the same things to eat he got me he brought me a little stuffed koala bear because he would have given that to me as a little girl that's what he met me with at the airport. And it was just magical. It was the most amazing week of my entire life. And it was so hard to come home from there. And but I was ready for like my support system back, you know, it was exhausting to like the timing of, you know, literally being upside down and whatever. It was the greatest week of my life. And then we went again in February. And all of us, and he got to meet his granddaughters, and Kevin, who he, I think Kevin was one of his biggest saving graces in this, knowing that I have, You know, he's an older guy, so I'm sorry if anyone's gonna think that this is, you know, an old school way of thinking, I'm sure, but I had somebody taking care of my heart, like, that loves me, and Kevin gave him peace, you know, like, He knew I was all right. Yeah, and he just loved Kevin. He called him mate all the time I don't think he ever even called him Kevin anymore because Kev would only go if he called him mate and We went and had an amazing time and then he got really sick. Yeah, and He passed away. Yeah I've been on January 8th and, which we're recording this January 30th. So like when she said, like, like he, yeah, like just as fast as that story came in and just as fast as the amount of life that you've lived. Yeah. And there's a part of me that feels like I'm supposed to be in a ball in the corner. Yeah. And I feel a little weird that I don't feel like that. And I'm going to put this in briefly, but right in September, September 27th, my two and a half year old niece died unexpectedly. And a loss like that just brings so much perspective and I could get so stuck in, you know, just having him for such a short time and whatever, but I truly believe that I only had him. I also only believed I would ever find him if He was a good man. Yeah. I never like went crazy searching because I believe the universe would give him to me if he was a good man. I didn't deserve another heartbreak in that department and that definitely could have never expected how good of a man though. Yeah. No, no, not, not at all. And I forgot what I was just going to say. So when having him for such a short time, it got to stay perfect because Humans eventually tarnish everything that's given to them, or take it for granted, or, you know, you go somewhere that's I remember when I first moved upstate in New York and it was so beautiful here and now I don't even see it, you know, and eventually I would have maybe taken it for granted and it got to stay perfect and the strain of his wife and, and daughter to be honest, really weighed heavy on me because I've already gone through that. And I don't make anyone like me, like I will not chase a relationship at all. And I don't know how long I could have carried that to, you know, and or him. Yeah. And. I think it would have gotten harder in time knowing that I have a dad and all this stuff and Or had you found him so much earlier, like, what would that have turned into? I wouldn't, I wouldn't have been prepared. So my, my stepfather and I, the timing of everything, honestly, my stepfather and I had it out that November before COVID, had it out, like, I said everything I ever needed to say and we made peace. If I found my dad, Joe, my bio dad, before my stepfather and I made that peace. I would have put that baggage of that relationship onto my dad and he did not deserve that. I wasn't ready to have my dad yet. And maybe he was, you know, there's a part of me that has always wondered, I know why I got him. Why did he get me? What did he need? You know? And I know from my brother that. What my brother got from me is a much more open relationship with his dad, you know, with our dad, like, because I'm just raw. So my dad had no choice. Like, I would say I love you every time I got off the phone. And He would say it. And then I learned later like that wasn't a thing. That's not what they did in their family, you know, and I brought out a different part of him because I made him. I just, it was what it was, you know. And, well, and it's interesting, you didn't know him from this young age where you were trained not to behave that way. So, like, you became your own person with your own experiences, you've done all your own work, and by the time you met him, you were, I mean, there's no embarrassment, there's no shame, there's no nothing, it's just I'm Jamie, the healed version that, you know, has, has done the work. Such a learning lesson, and I think this is the biggest thing for me, of how going back to When I was eight years old, I didn't make a decision that I was happy with. Like, I didn't tell anyone when something had happened, right? And at eight years old, I learned from that. And at 12 years old, I made a different decision. I made the right one. And all of these choices. From, if I never got into drugs, I never would have met Kevin. So I don't give a shit about having been a drug addict. That was, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because that makes you, when you truly get sober, not just dry, but sober, you have to dig so deep within yourself to get to why you got there to begin with. It has, putting down the substance is the easy part. Working through all the things that got you there is the hard part. Yeah. And I didn't need to make amends to people and everything. That was kind of the harder thing, is it was the stuff done to me. It wasn't the stuff I had done to anybody, you know? I wasn't like robbing old ladies and doing all that, you know? It was stuff that was done to me. And you can't make somebody apologize to you. So you have to find peace with these things. But you can't hold them accountable, which I think is what you've learned. You can hold them accountable! And I did. Brutally held them accountable. Yeah. And Because of that, we are in such a good space. Like he was one of the first calls after my dad died. You know, and, and he's like, life gets hard when you get older. And I was like, really, dude? Life has always been hard. And I said That Fair. Holding you accountable, Totally fair. Don't even make a little comment like that. I will not keep a response. No. Yeah, no, no. I will not let little things like that go. Because if I do, then I have resentments towards him. Mm-Hmm. Oh, that's powerful. The dumb Jamie. Dumb things. Yeah. Have to be held. The people that didn't reach out when my dad died, that should have. Mm. Held them accountable. Mm hmm. Didn't haven't heard from you, you didn't reach out to my kids, not cool. This is their grandfather, they went around the world and met him. Yeah. Like, this was a real thing. Yeah. It's been a lot. And it happened quickly, but if we took the time to catch up, you'd hear the story, yeah. And realizing when I found my dad, like. What I was showing up with I am like all of my work Was now being put to judgment And I could not have been prouder With the life I got to show up with and that was all a series of tiny little choices throughout the whole imagine like just stumble into this situation. It was very intentional, was very intentional. And with that I was able to get through these hard things and not take it on because I'm a catch. My family's a catch. Mm hmm. Hell yeah, they are. My kids the biggest catch and if you don't appreciate that or respect that, I'm good. Sorry for you. Yeah. Yeah. Like if my dad was any kind of way, I wouldn't have gotten on a plane by myself and when I knew that was right and I knew it was right to not go to his funeral. Mm hmm. Yeah, because I needed to be around love. I think you've handled it. I mean in the most beautiful thoughtful But true to you not like just the totally true to a proper way Mm hmm, always true to me and I don't know if I that was not always an intentional Decision, you know, it just was yeah and Now, at 44, 22 years of sobriety, it's very, the numbers thing is very weird and all of this. Yeah, it is very weird. For the next big thing, you know, the passing of my dad to happen right at 22 years of sobriety. And it's like, now I get to go on to the next half of life. I have zero baggage of like childhood traumas and that is such a bizarre light. It makes you wonder what the next 22 years have in store because we've done so much work. Like what could it possibly even be? Yeah. I don't even know how to make a vision board right now. Because there's always been a want and like. I've never been so content in my entire life that I ever see office Lisa. Have you seen office space yet? I've told you so many times you gotta watch this movie Where he's just like, all right, you know I don't want to do whatever and like that's kind of how I don't know what to do next. It's weird. I like to sleep in on my day off now. I'm not getting up at 4am. I'm good. You needed the miracle morning during that period of time. That completely changed my life. What was this quote I just shared? Autumn from SoulTribe put it on her story and I put it on mine but it's very relevant to what we're saying right now so I'm going to pull it up right this second. I just shared it. It was I read a quote that said the universe will never give you peace in something you were never meant to settle in. And that makes so much sense. And so you had those periods of time where you felt so not at peace, so uncomfortable. So and it manifested and showed itself in different ways. Yes. You've done the work that now you can settle into the peace because. It's right where you're supposed to be. It's, it's wild. Like, before my dad's stuff, it was building this salon. Like, there was always, like, something, you know? This chase. And there is no chase right now. And I am just letting myself be in peace. Give it some time, yeah. Now I need to turn into friendships and putting attention into those things and stuff. That's definitely a hard thing for me, you know? Moving so much as a teenager You didn't establish those, yeah? No, no. I was very isolated, like, I was always the new kid outside and and I kind of put myself there now. Yeah. And I hate that, you know, but I also don't do anything about it. So it's kind of, I don't know. We're gonna just remember that. It's also very fair to, like we said, this timeline is really kind of wild. And I'm grateful, obviously, that you wanted to share. It was like, Jamie was thinking about her end of a year or whatever, and she was like, I'm, I'd like to come on the podcast. But we've said so many things. Maybe a book will exist one day. She does not have it in her to, like, try. She's kind of gone that route, talked to editors. It's just so much work, and I, correct me if I'm wrong, is this the first time you've, like, start to finish other than just, like, a lot of conversations individually with people told this story? Like, I'm very proud of you for that because it's a lot and I can't even imagine how it's going to feel for you to listen back to it. But I know all of this has obviously happened for a reason and I have no idea what that's going to look like or what that's going to turn into, but I'm, I, I feel that too. And I don't know what the reason is, but there's. Something for this like and it's not your job to force it or figure it out. No, it'll Every everything has always just kind of come like Or you follow the little breadcrumbs, like your client talking about the genealogy, or you know, like, a breadcrumb will present itself, but Well, one actually has. What's that? Which was interesting. A woman that I worked with in Pravana, she lives up in Buffalo, and she sent me a message recently. And said, I'm having somebody come into my salon, she owns suites up there and she's an energy, like, stylist kind of thing. I'm not even sure what that entails. She goes, but all I could think of when I was thinking of doing this is you. And I feel like you're supposed to be doing this. When I set up the date, let me know if you're interested and you could come and take the, the thing in her. I love that. So maybe we'll have you back once we know what that entails. Yeah. I don't even know, you know, and definitely I feel like I come from a little bit of a different space when it comes to some of this energy stuff. Yeah. Or like coaching stuff. More of like a rock. You just don't want the bluff. You don't want the bullshit. No, I don't. I don't. Yeah. I just can't. You've done the healing, but you've also had your time wasted by a lot of therapists and a lot of like, it's hard to find that. It's hard to do the work, but find the right path without all the junk. Oh, all the junk. It is. I, the junk never helped, the tough love helped, you know, as much as like my mom moving and whatever, I can curse that all day, but that, that made me who I am, I had to figure that shit out, you know, and people are very pampered nowadays with having to figure things out, and We don't like to feel uncomfortable. No, and being uncomfortable is my favorite place to be. And now, now being comfortable is weird. You're like, what am I doing here? I don't know what to do with this. I'm so used to being uncomfortable. I'm so used to having Digging in deep to myself is my comfort zone and now there's like it's done like oh, we should journal I don't have anything to write down. Yeah, I processed all this shit. Yeah Yeah, I don't know. It's it's good. And you know, I'm other shoe will drop eventually just because it does And I want to stay in this right now while I can before, yeah, I'm really grateful for you coming on and sharing. I think we did go a little over an hour and that's totally fine. I'll figure that out with editing. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we covered that so perfectly and so beautifully. And I don't know if you want to have a podcast one day. I feel like I could listen to you talk. for weeks. Like, you have so many stories. There were so many times I wanted to interrupt and be like, tell me that in time, that day, just that day, you know, like I want to hear it all. But obviously we don't have time for this. So maybe we'll have you back on again one day. But I've just appreciated, like I said in the beginning, This wasn't a business thing. This wasn't a here's the perfectly package package lesson and all of that. I mean, obviously we heard a lot of it, but this is just like your truth and it's really cool. And I feel honored to be able to give you a spot to just share. Thank you so much for giving me a spot to do this. I think I could only have done this with you. So I really appreciate that. Thank you, friend. Love you. Love you.