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Connect with Lisa Huff
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Connect with Lisa Huff
Welcome to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. I'm your host, Lisa Huff. Over the last five years, I've coached hundreds of hairstylists and beauty industry professionals, helping them work their dream schedules exclusively with their dream clientele, and earn their dream income. income, all while fostering genuine connections and lifelong friendships inside the beauty industry. And this podcast, we dive deep into abundance, manifestation, business building strategies, and creating a life that you are truly proud of both behind the chair and at home. Are you ready to embark on a journey of personal growth, success, and sisterhood then hit that subscribe button now and get ready to experience the pure magic of Silas Old Tribe conversations. Hello, friends, and welcome back to Stylist Soul Tribe Conversations. Today, I am here with Hunter Donya. Hunter is one of the smartest people that I know. He grew an incredibly successful business for himself behind the chair and has built an empire in the education world. Hunter's superpower, in my opinion, is helping stylists create automation, systemization, establishing boundaries, and really just creating beautiful businesses for themselves. He's the host of the Modern Hairstylist Podcast, creator of his signature course, PVP. He has a membership, Modern Stylist Movement, and most of all, has become one of my very best friends and one of the first people that I call and turn to when I'm celebrating, stressing, and literally everything in between. So it was a no brainer to have him on for one of our first few episodes. Hunter, thank you so much for being your friend. I've done like... I've done a lot of podcast interviews and I think that was by far the nicest, sweetest, most flattering introduction ever. So I just agree. Probably because I love you the most. Dude, I love you so much. Thank you so much. I'm really, really, really excited to be here. And I'm just so excited that You're going to be starting this platform and that people are going to be able to get to know you on like a deeper level on this like, you know, more public platform. Because I know that you serve your, your people like within your membership so deeply and so well. And when you have the opportunity to collaborate and connect with like the hair, the hairstylist industry, everybody falls in love with you. And I'm just so excited for you to have this platform for more and more and more people to like dive into you and the beauty that you have to offer to the world. And I'm so honored to be on a part of this. The, this platform today, it's gonna be great. I'm so excited. Thank you for saying that. And also, I have to give you, obviously, a lot of credit because, Hunter, this mic wouldn't be in front of me if it weren't for you, this setup wouldn't be here, I mean, like, I truly mean it. Hunter has become one of, like, my core people in my world, so, you have been a huge part of, like, bringing this to life and all the recommendations, and I so appreciate it. Okay. So let's dive a little bit into you because I'm sure as this podcast rolls out, I think a lot of my audience is going to know you, but not everybody is going to. So give like a brief overview without like the entire life story. So basically, I started in this industry from a very Hello, friend. Hello, how are you? Nice to meet you, if we did not know each other. My name's Hunter Donya. I started in this industry when I was really young. So I was 15 years old when I enrolled in my local high school's vocational cosmetology program, which I was so privileged to be able to do. But before I decided to enroll, I had come out of the closet from a pretty young age, like seventh grade. And I had a hard time, like, fitting into certain places and, like, finding, like, what the right fit was for me and academics, like, I was okay at normal academics, but, like, obviously, like, they weren't lighting me up and it was really difficult with my ADHD to be able to, like, thrive within those. And so once I heard that they had this vocational cosmetology program, it sounded like it'd be a really beautiful fit for me because I was, like, coloring my hair. Every other week, like expressing myself and like doing makeup. So I enrolled in the in the vocational program when I was a sophomore in high school. I had to like beg my parents to let me go. They somehow let me go, even though they were like giving me so much shit about it. And it was the first place where I really felt like I was. Fully 100 percent celebrated for who I was inside and out. And I felt like I was like with my people. And I even got my first job at a salon as a general assistant. Literally my first day was like my 16th birthday. So from a really young age, this industry had given me so much. Safety and comfortability and hope for myself, you know, like being somebody who was different and being gay and like being like, so ostracized and feeling shame for who I was and not really sure, like if I would be successful in life or if people would accept me for who I am. It was so it gave me so much hope and it and and and it and it made me feel so affirmed and who I was and that I could make an impact in the world. And so the industry just means so much to me solely because of that. And. Because of that, I became absolutely obsessed with it. I loved making an impact on other people's lives the way that we do. I loved collaborating with other hairstylists. I think that we are definitely a special breed and I just love being in a room of other beauty professionals. And I think that the power of what we do is really underrated and to collaborate over that and to make it happen with each other and support each other in making that happen, I think is also really beautiful. Yeah. But I, I started doing hair like as soon as I graduated high school, I got my cosmetology license before I graduated high school. And I was able to build a clientele pretty quickly from a very young age and like kick ass behind the chair. I started becoming a brand educator at like 19 and a half or something like that, which is like, I cannot believe that these companies let me do that. But I mean, it really is so not surprising once you get to know you though, cause I know that sounds so wild, but I mean, how old are you right now? I'm 25. 25. I mean, I'm 30. I'm about to turn 31 like 10 years from now. You're going to think that about you right now. I can't believe my 25 year old ass was making this podcast, talking to these people like you, but you can show up and you can provide value. So it really is a no brainer. So that was brand education. What year was that? Oh, I, the only, I was 19. So I can't do math. 2018. Okay. Okay. And I feel like I kind of crossed paths with you. What would you say? Like 2020 ish? Yeah. Okay. So, then on to there. Tell me about that. So, I started brand education. Fell in love with it. Started, like, teaching, like, color around, like, our region. And, like, doing a little bit of national classes and stuff like that. And then, pandemic hit, I opened up my own salon suite. And in like a brand new area in which I had no clientele and I absolutely blew it the fuck up like three and a half months book solid five new client requests a week that became aggressively overwhelming for myself. And I had to figure out how to like make that make that a more sustainable business for me. Because like, yeah, like everybody wants to be like that book solid but like Until you get there and then you're like, wait a minute. Exactly. Like it brings a whole new set of issues. And what I've also learned too, is like, The reason why I'm so overwhelmed is because there's all this work that I have to do to get those three and a half months book solid worth of clients, right? So if I could make it so I had less like responsibility on my shoulders or if I could make all of the tasks that I have to do as a business owner to sustain that success a little bit easier or delegated or streamlined, then I could show up. Yeah. And I could show up way better. Yep. And I could make this a more sustainable. for me because I actually am going home and I have free time, right? So I ended up figuring out how to do that for my own business. And then clubhouse happens and that's when we met and really connected. Yeah, right. So we were able to connect over clubhouse and I was able to grow like a fair bit of a following on clubhouse. I like went ham on there. Like I was like. room in the morning room at night if there was room going on I'd be like in there raising my hand trying to get on the stage. I'm like outside walking every day out of breath. And then sometimes it'd be like windy as shit and like we couldn't hear anything. Are you crying? You sound like I'm like, no, I'm just walking. I would literally be like, take, I would be in the clubhouse room and I would like take the phone into the shower and I would literally like unmute in the shower to like, I was like a phenomena, like truly, that was crazy. Okay. Keep going. So that happened. And then I just, like, I didn't realize like how many hairstylists, like, I didn't realize that I was doing something cool. You know, like when I was doing a brand education, I loved talking about the business side. Like when I would, I would be like, okay, cool, this is a color class, but I'm really excited to talk to you guys about how you can sell more retail and how you can have more effective consultations to be able to give somebody a great service. Right. And so I just naturally found this like inclination and obsession with business. And obviously I got really obsessed with my own business to make my success happen. Yep. And I didn't, when I had these conversations and I was starting to meet all these other people and have these like, great, large, big conversations in Clubhouse, I didn't realize that what I was doing was like, actually cool and unique and interesting. And a lot of people need it and you kept telling the same thing over and over to these people. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, I'm literally actually at the beginning of that year before Clubhouse even happened. At the beginning of that year, I said, this is the year that I go independent. I like put it down in like a goal planner for like the rest of the year. And I said, this is the year that I start my independent education. And I wrote down like a number. I was like, I think I was like, I'm going to make 50, 000 this year from independent hair, like independent education, which is like, which was ballsy for me. Like, that was very much like a, this is not going to happen, but I'm going to write it down anyway. And and so I ended up making, I ended up making Pre Visit Pathway. I was just like, I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. I was like, I don't think anybody's going to buy it. I remember like being in bed with my ex partner and like being like, okay, tomorrow I'm going to put this on sale. And if just like five or ten people join, like I'll be happy. It's so wild to look back on because I remember the moment that video dropped. I remember that moment in time. And it is wild to hear you talk about. Feeling like nobody's going to buy this, like I'm just kind of throwing it together because I know you've reiterated it many times, remade it, redefined it, things like that, but it is so incredibly fucking valuable, and obviously you know that now, so it's so cool to hear that side of it because I watched it all play out, you know seeing it get introduced to the world, so that's really amazing, and then, and then from there, So from there, dude, just watch. It truly is insane. I think I was with you after Thrivers Live, where I had like a full circle moment and I was just like sobbing because I was like in a room of so many people who I've invested and like who were like coming up to me all day like telling me that I changed their lives or like that I made an impact in them and it was just like, it just got really real as far as. How much it has blown up and like what I've actually done, you know, it's really interesting to be a majority of the digital online educator because, you know, of course, like you can connect online and we try really hard as facilitators to create these really personal connections, although it is not in person. And however, you know, there's always going to be this in person aspect that you just can never fully achieve. And so, you know, well, people will like share with me like the sweetest, nicest things online. But when you see that, Oh my God, when you like are looking eye to eye with somebody and they're like crying to you or whatever, it just. It hits completely different. And so, like, basically, after I start, after I sold that first course, I was able to have like hundreds of people join my program. I grew really quickly. I had to grow a team to be able to sustain what I had going on. I had to, I was literally forced to reduce the days that I was working behind the chair. And then I had my, I had some like personal things going on, which made me move into a which made me move into a commissioned salon state now. I'm working one day a week and focusing on my program and serving my community the best that I possibly can serving my my team and, and, and empowering them to help me serve our communities. And. Yeah, that's where we are now. I'm so glad I made you do all that because obviously I know all that, but it's really cool hearing you say it and like those are the conversations we're now having on the daily basis. So it's kind of weird to like almost look at it in hindsight, even though you're very much in it. It just gives a really beautiful, I think, perspective around it when it can feel so crazy and scary and chaotic. And I'm so grateful I have you as somebody along for that wild ride gets it because not many people do so. I love that. Okay, let's go back into some of PVP, some of MSM, some of the things that you teach. Automation, tech, organization. I feel like I, we do have some similarities when it comes to like boundaries, things like that, but you truly are a genius when it comes to things tech. Yeah. Automation. Like you understand things that I cannot even come close to understanding. So if somebody is listening to this podcast, they have not taken your things, like, let's just like dip our toes into what automation systems organization, like what, what does that look like? Yeah. So what I teach people is like how to take a lot of the administrative tasks and client communication tasks. And then even furthermore, some of like the extra special client experience tasks that they have. on their plate and I help them either automate it or make it as streamlined and easy as possible for them. And it's really important to me that we do this because as we all know, like, there's a whole new standard for what it looks like to be a successful hairstylist now to go above and beyond our average salary of 28, 000. Like, there's a lot of extra stuff that thank God we can do nowadays. However, it's a lot because We are a full time hairstylist. Like we have a full time job that we signed up for, but then we also have to be like the owners of our business. And we have to be social media gurus, like receptionist. We have to do our inventory, our taxes, our finances, et cetera, et cetera. So what I help hairstylists do is stay consistent in offering a next level client experience because it's as automated and easy as possible, and then simultaneously make it so. That you as a hairstylist have more work life balance because you save so much time from what you're putting in place, which also allows you to enforce your boundaries and hold you accountable to your boundaries because you have systems in place that hold you accountable. You're not just winging it client to client. Exactly. And you know, here's the thing, like, I am you know me, I don't know, I don't know what it is about me. I'm just. I think, like, mindset work is obviously super important. You know I'm not very woo woo myself, right? Okay, but I hate to say that I can't help it when you said you wrote 50, 000 in your journal. Like, do you not fucking realize what you're doing? I know. Okay, keep going. No. I just, it just, I'm not against it. I'm just not like actively, consciously practicing it, I guess, you know, a little bit more left brain. Yeah. Like what I do believe, like the universe is going to put me wherever I need to be put, you know, like I 100 percent believe in that. But because of that, like, I'm not somebody who I just don't believe that mindset work is enough. Like you can't just release control from there. Yes. I just don't believe that. I don't believe, especially for like boundaries or like how you're doing your business and like how you're holding yourself accountable and how you're achieving work life balance. I just don't believe that you can affirm yourself in the morning and tell yourself that you're going to say no to this client. I just don't believe that as human beings we have the emotional capacity. to just rely on that for us to actually achieve what we're trying to achieve in the day to day, especially because we have so many responsibilities. And not to mention, like, I'm a really big fan of separating you and your business from your personal life. And I don't think that you should necessarily Have to emotionally labor within your business, although we are such an emotional industry, I just want to remove as much of that from you as possible because we have emotional fucking personal lives like, like our personal lives are heavy enough. So what? I have done for myself as like an emotional, empathetic human being who has a really difficult time saying no, I have put systems in place that make it so it's really easy for me to say no, or it's almost impossible for me to say yes when I really shouldn't, right? So those are the systems and the automations that I teach from a high level perspective. Yeah, love it. Okay, so we're also doing a giveaway. I was going to save this for the end, but I'll touch on it right now. Hunter is donating a hairstylist template vault. That's the name, right? Yep. Cause we're doing a big, exciting giveaway. You guys are going to hear about that in a previous episode. It's probably running right now while this episode comes out. And inside of that template vault, we have policies, we have verbiage, we have. forms. Tell us like more about what that is. And even just for stylists listening, not just to go buy it, like what are some like little if you're not doing anything, like where can you start that makes the biggest impact? Well, specifically with the hairstylist template vault, I think having your policies in place is really important. And I'm a really big fan of having your Your clients sign your policies and read them like multiple times, like over the course of them being a client with you, like not just once. And I think that's a really great place to start. It's really simple. And I'm actually, I'm continuously surprised with how many stylists don't have policies in place. And not to mention too. Within the advanced policies template vault that is included in the entire thing, we don't just have base level policies, we have intricate, detailed policies. So, for example, sure, like, within 24 hours, whatever you get, whatever, if you can't solve, right? Like, we take this money from you, whatever, right? Yeah. But what happens when you have Susie who, within the course of Let's say six months cancels on you at the 36 hour mark three times, right? That's fucking it. We all have one of those. Yeah, they follow the rules, but it's still not working for you. Yeah, exactly. Right. So in there, we also cover those little details, like those little specific situations. And the thing that policies do. And I'm a big firm believer in this, and I pitch this all the time, but policies are not in place for you to be able to enforce them. They're in, they're in place for you to be able to prevent the bad behavior, the unwanted behavior in the very beginning, right? I agree. Like, with your kids, right? Like, let's say that you're a parent listening to this. Like, you put rules in place, you tell your kids not to do something because you don't want to fucking, you don't want them to do it. Yeah, right. Like you wouldn't rather you would rather not have to punish them. It's not like a, it's not like this. You're off to ground your kid kind of thing. It's, it's a filter, you know, like don't do that because that's, what's going to be getting in the way. And I say that all the time too. And we may do things a little bit different with our policies. I don't know. I don't keep a card on file or do anything like that. But to me, my cancellation policies, it's not a money making tactic in any way, shape, or form. It's a filter so that I have easy verbiage to let people go when they don't. Play by my rules, you know? Yes. And I love that you brought it up.'cause that brings me to my next point with it, which is, is now you also have a system that will help you and support you in these difficult emotional times where it's really scary or hard for you to it to stand up for yourself. You literally have so, on paper that somebody literally read and signed and agreed to. So like, there's no, you can't screw yourself over or you have support with something that's not emotional, extremely logical, literally, literally on paper that will help you carry out these difficult, scary tasks in a much more logical way. Right. So it's like. Especially if you're an independent stylist or operating independently in one way or another, you don't have a receptionist. You don't have a manager. You don't have a salon owner who can be your front defense, right? Or that is literally like setting up the The, the, the, what's it called? The fricking things for the bowling alleys, the bumpers, the lanes. Okay. They're not setting up the bumpers for you, you know, that safety. Yeah. Right. So like for like what I look at my systems as are the bumpers. Like they're the things that like support me when I, because it's just me. Right. And I, I can't be everything for myself or my clients. So these, these systems that I teach such as. And this is a really simple example, your policies and having advanced policies that support you in those situations. I think it was really, really powerful. Yeah, and it's just there. So then you have the verbiage. It's not like you have to get on this human level and be like, well, you know, like, I've got, you know, kids that are have to be at school. Sports and I have to plan my day accordingly and I have to, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All these stupid conversations we find ourselves having with our clients, like just be a business owner and, and keep it simple. And I agree. Which then turns into verbiage. I love that. So if somebody is listening and they'll obviously go check out the vault, but what would you say are like, I don't know, three, five, 10, whatever comes to your brain, like policies that no brainer. If you don't have them right now, do it right away. So cancellation, obviously redo policy. And this is another thing like within the vault that we have, like, so another detail is like, okay, like, if you just have a redo policy, it says seven days. We do for free, whatever that doesn't cover your ass when you're in a situation where you may be like you delivered on what you were going to give that person, right? Like you delivered on the expectations that were agreed upon upfront, right? So in my review policy, it's not just you're going to get a redo within seven days or whatever it's you agree. To the fact that, and you understand that in the, in the consultation, Hunter and you will verbally agree on what the expectations will be based upon Hunter's Expertise. Discretion. Okay. Discretion. Based upon Hunter's discretion, he will then decide whether or not he delivered on exactly what our expectations were, and if that, and if that is the case, then you can possibly inquire for a redo, however it may be at a charge whether that be of just the product or the full entire charge of what that service would be normally, otherwise if. Hunter decides that X, Y, and Z that, that, that, that he could have done better or that this is an adjustment that can be done complimentary, then that will be taken into consideration as well. Before you lose all these policies, I just want to jump in real quick. We just had somebody in Soul Tribe have an experience like this where she was doing a consultation. Girl wanted to be blonder than she could be in one go in the time allotted story of everybody's life. And she said she was telling her, okay, we'll get you there. Eventually we're going to get you blonder today. You're not going to be there. And she said, she just saw her client's eyes, like glaze over, like the lady was just like, okay, that sounds great. That sounds great. And then she leaves and the next day she gets a message. This is nowhere near as blonde as I expected. And I think again, that comes into almost just like giving us like some like meat to stand on. That says like, You need to fill this out. And then like it makes them perk up and not their eyes glaze over and say like, Oh, I need to listen to what this person is saying to me right now. Cause I'm signing that. I can't just, you know, complain about this the next day. So I love that. Keep going with the policy. Sorry. I've even seen, no, thank you for sharing that. I've even seen actually not in my own business and I've, I don't think I've seen my students do this, but I've even seen stylists. And a salon owner, like, have somebody literally, like, handing them the, the, the policy, like, after the consultation of, like, the evaluation of how much it's going to cost and what they can expect, and sign it right then and there, like, I think that's, I mean, like, if you were getting, like, your house, a project done on your house, and somebody's telling you what they, I mean, that's what it would be, it would be an itemized list, the cost, how long it's going to take, yeah. You'd agree on the quote, you'd agree on the expectations up front, you know, I think that, like, I think, like, if you have specific situations such as that, right, like, where you can tell, or like, it is like a, you know, under promise, over deliver, or if it's like a, like, I'm not gonna get you this bomb today, although this is your situation, like, in those specific situations, something like that could really come in handy too, you know? Yeah. My last policy, and you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's something that is like, oh my god, you absolutely essentially need it, but I would say that it's something that people don't think about a lot, and I think that it can be really helpful, especially. In the time and age and era that we live in is a salon etiquette policy. And so a salon etiquette policy looks like something like here at hair by hunting salon, we will not, we will not tolerate any discriminatory language, homophobia, transphobia, racism, xenophobia, et cetera, et cetera. And if, if, if Hunter decides that that language is, is. happening, right? For lack of a better term. Yeah. Then after one warning, he has the right to refuse, like, to stop service immediately in the middle of it and, like, refuse it and, like, not to fill on the service. And I think that this goes back to having your, your client's Sign and agree to your policies, and I literally teach my students how to do it every single visit in a way that's like not annoying. It's like a nice, cool way for them to actually do it. When you have somebody literally reading that, right, and you can really like feature that if you want to, it may remove a lot of that awkward conversations that you don't not want to have, like at all, you know? Like it may completely stop somebody in their tracks from bringing up anything, and you can get as specific as you want to, you know? I think even just from an energetic... standpoint, like this is your space that somebody is stepping into. You are not legally, morally, ethically obligated to service anybody that doesn't feel good to you. So I think there's so many different ways you could go about that. And it's just, it is such an awkward situation once you get a client and you just realize they, they're one of those people that like put their foot in their mouth all the time or just. Say weird things, you know, we all deal with that. And then I coach to a yes no, maybe list and like letting go of clients that drain you. But I agree. I think if you're seeing a lot of commonalities of like, oh, this person is always talking about this, or I'm always dealing with this. When you said salon etiquette, my brain just went to like, oh, don't bring your kids. Don't you know these? Well, that too, that too I love. But I, I, I really love that. Just really those crystal clear boundaries from the get go. And then having that, obviously, we'd have really good verbiage and figure that out, but then having that to be able to turn to and stand on as your, as your kind of like safety net when you, when you're facing that. Love those. And I don't think that I I don't think it takes away, here's the other thing too, like, you know, I teach all these non confrontational things because they are really helpful when you do have to have that confrontation, right? Like, that's unavoidable, you know, like, it's unavoidable, like, you're gonna have to have the confrontation, and I think that, like, having a one to one conversation and understanding how to do that in, like, a way that will, you know be most likely to achieve a positive outcome. I think like understanding how to do that is really important and being willing to get uncomfortable and do that, doing that is really important. Like sometimes somebody is going to read your salon etiquette policy and they're just not even going to fucking look at it. And then they're going to say some crazy shit in your chair. And what are you going to do? It's not fair for you, your energy, your clients after that person to not stand up for yourself and not to just continue accepting that in your chair, you know, so you're gonna have to say, listen, Susie, like, I totally like love having you here. I love getting to chat with you about everything. This topic is particularly making me a little bit uncomfortable and I would really appreciate if we could just like move to a different topic and avoid this. Moving forward, like a little bit and like no, like no pressure, like no weirdness around this. Like, I just want to be honest and upfront with you. And I really appreciate you like being willing to like work with me with this, you know, having that type of conversation is unavoidable. But if it, if worse comes to worse, like you could even say in this circumstance, you could say it is in my salon etiquette policies in which like this type of conversation isn't necessarily one that is allowed in this space just to like protect my energy and to make sure that we all feel comfortable and safe in here. So if you wouldn't mind, like Can we please move on to a different topic, right? Love. Systems aren't meant to replace you, they're meant to support you. And like, but having that support is so invaluable, right? So. So much so. Love, love, love. Okay, so now I want to move the conversation a little bit into like tech. So I've never taken PVP, I am an affiliate for PVP now, so I've definitely had my eyes in there. I have a lot of Soul Tribe members. I was gonna say like all of your, like a lot of your students have taken it. I feel like I know PVP basically, but I can't say that because I'm sure if I took it start to finish my mind would be blown, I'd learn a lot. But. Let's move on to tech because obviously from a business standpoint, we'd meet you and I talk tech a lot, but let's talk tech even from a hairstylist standpoint. So I know you're huge on forms. You're huge on Email. Email. There was something else I wanted to say along with that, but I can't think of it right now. Business phone, maybe? What's that? Like a business phone? Oh, yeah, I mean, I guess that too. Okay, so I guess that's where my brain is. You have all these different tech, you know tools and support that you use. One, I guess if you want to say what your favorites are right now, or two, how do you like constantly stay on top of that? Like, where do you learn all that? Why are you constantly evolving that? I mean, I know that's like clearly just your brain and your hobbies. And when you're just like sitting up at night, that's what you're doing. But like, Help me, as somebody who isn't like that, explain, like, understand that better. So, my dad is a software engineer. He actually created a booking, literally a booking system. You told me that the other day when we were on the phone, yeah. It's insane, like, I just, and you know, it's funny because, Like, obviously, like, I was gonna say, like, I've known him my whole life. You don't say. I would hope. I mean, some people don't. Go ahead. That's true. That's true. My entire life, I, like, knew that he was, like, some techie dude. It wasn't until, like, the last, like, three, four years that I really found out, like, exactly what he does. He never wants to talk about it. It, like, drives me up a wall, because I'm, like, all obsessed with it. Yeah. So, and he's been doing this computer stuff for, like, years and years and years and years. So, like, since I was born. So I had a laptop in my lap from the age of, like, five. I was gonna say, I know you feel like he doesn't ever want to talk about it, but it makes me wonder if so much of it is just, like, subconscious to you. Like, how much was just from the very beginning? Right. For you. That makes sense. In conversations that you heard. So I had a laptop in my lab since I was like five years old. Which I think is a privilege. It was obviously like a very big privilege. Yeah. And I'm very happy that that was my experience. And I I literally dude, I don't know how long Wix has been around. But I swear to God, I was like a kid just effing around and creating Wix websites. That just was like, entertaining to you as a kid? just fun for me. A little bit of Fortnite, a little bit of website building. Yes, I would like be playing like my computer games like RuneScape or whatever, or Sims or whatever, but then I would also like play around. I would just love creating things digitally. It just lit me up. fired me up like so much. And so to this day, like technology and like creating things digitally and making things happen is just so fascinating to me. And I'm just such a nerd about it. And it's so funny. This conversation is so relevant because literally yesterday I was just like perusing through Square. Just to like see if something was possible. Like I was like, I wonder like how I could make this happen. Right? Like if, how could I teach my students to like make this happen and what settings could support this happening? So like going through square and I like saw that, like, they updated something in there and that they didn't announce at all. And I was like. Oh my God, I have to, like, go tell my community about this because now that they can do, like, all this cool stuff. So it's just because, like, I want to see what is possible. And I just think to say it's, like, truly second nature. Yes. Like, it's not like you're, like, putting that into your calendar, like research the latest. That's, like, instead of watching a TV show, that's, like, what you find yourself doing. Yeah. And, you know, and it's fascinating. No, literally, yes. Okay. It's, like, but it's fascinating that you say that, too, you know? I mean, to get, like, really real with everybody, like, like, I've actually made it a. thing with my team recently in which I'm like, I need to make sure that I have like actually like dedicated time to research and doing this stuff. And it's not just like off the cuff, although I do it often, I want to make sure that there's intentional time to do it because I want to make sure that I'm as updated. You can't fall behind on that. Mm hmm. Yeah. So so yeah, that's my answer. Is that helpful? Yeah, that's super helpful. It's just so interesting to me that that's just the way your brain works. I love that. Okay, I want to turn it now. We're, we're still pretty good on time. We're at 9 40. So I'm going to turn the conversation a little bit more what Hunter and I, I feel like our conversations typically are like you and I, and I feel like just in how long, you know, the last three years that we've really been connected and speaking on a regular basis. I want to go like a little bit more lifestyle, a little bit more self care. I've watched you really. evolve in that? And I guess I don't know where you were at before, but it seems like that's become a lot more important to you. So tell me about that, like, journey that you've had. Yeah. So I think a big reason why I was so successful Behind the chair when I first started up my suite and why I was really, really obsessed with business. I still am, but I would be spent, like, I don't, I have boundaries around it now where, like, before I didn't. It was like an addiction almost before, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So what it really was, what I've discovered is, is like, it was such a dis It was a distraction for me from, from my personal life because like, I was not happy in my personal life. Like I was with a partner who like, I just was not happy with and it like, wasn't cool. And it wasn't until I actually like went to therapy for like, because I was like, I am working so fucking hard all the time. Like I like, and something needs to give, cause sometimes it's just, I'm going to hit a breaking point. Like I'm going to like slow my role. So I went to therapy and I was like, Oh, and they were like, you need to like, just like. do something for yourself like exist outside of business and exactly and once I started sending boundaries around my my business and like once I started to kind of force myself to look at what I have going on in my personal life I realized like it was not cool like I did not feel good about it at all so that ended up. Eventually it turned into like me leaving my my partner and then having like an entire personal life as a as somebody I got into my relationship when I was like 19 and then here I am I'm like 23 24 and I had like not really done much of building a personal I built this amazing business that I Absolutely fucking love. Yeah, like what about Hunter? Like, what about like him and like his like life and like his fulfillment like other than that, you know, and so the past year or so ever since like I went through that breakup. I have just like really started to become super fascinated in the ways that like I can now like reap the benefits of the business that I created. Right. To then have free time to be able to afford, like, things that are, like, investing in myself and my interests and my hobbies and, like, figuring out even what my, what the fuck my hobbies are. You know? Literally. Like, I didn't have, I didn't do that. You know? It's been so cool to watch you do that, though. Like, I remember the first time you went to Savannah and, like, that experience and how many times have you backed? Been back since then three times and I'm going back a fourth time with my community soon. I'm fucking excited about. Yeah. So even like sell that story. Cause like, and I, we've even had this conversation. You just got back from like a trip through Europe. And there's one times we've been on the phone and you're like, fuck Lisa. I wish you didn't have kids. And I just had like a friend that could afford to like do these things with me. But I think it's so cool that you do still do them. You Instagram story up like the last week or a concert by yourself. Like that is. So inspiring to me and I love hearing you talk about that. So I guess, tell me about the first time about Savannah and just how you continue to like push yourself and do that and what has come into your life since doing that? Well, if you don't mind me, like steering the conversation a little bit. Okay. I think it's important to mention too, like I think that what I've also come to kind of theorize is that I think that I have a lot of. grit with just like doing whatever the fuck I want to do because of like from a young age, like I said, like I came out when I was like seven in like seventh grade and I remember like little hunter just being like, this is really scary for me to like put on makeup and go to school. It's really scary for me to like color my hair and like wear girls clothes like out to like fucking going to the mall. I literally got chills you saying that. It's really, it's like scary, but I want to fucking do it. And like, it's gonna make me happy, you know? So I'm just gonna go fucking do it, and like, see what happens. And like, the more that I like, I leaned into that, like, the more I felt like I was like, becoming myself, and the more the people celebrated me, you know? And I also learned like, the people who weren't celebrating me, the people who gave me shit, like, I don't give a shit about what they think anyway. Like, they're not, they don't have no value to me. Another good filter of who should and shouldn't be in your life, yeah. Right. So I oftentimes, and I've done like, a lot of therapy as well with this, and like, realizing, like, looking at like, Little hunter and like recently whenever things get like scary or weird and I need to muster up courage I'm like, what would like a little fucking hunter do like he didn't give a shit Yeah, and I like makes me wanna cry But like I think that I've been able to just like build that muscle of like this is uncomfortable But like I want this bad and I'm gonna fucking do it anyway You know, and you have a track record now of times that you've done it and survived and actually been super happy after that. You crave more of that. Exactly. Yeah. So I, so I went to, I was like in the midst of my my like breakup and my client told me about this magical fucking place called Savannah in Arizona. And it's this like wellness resort and like included in your stay is all of these like wellness classes that you can take between like six a. m. and like seven p. m. and it's just like all these different types of things. So like yoga, meditation, there's hikes, like there's like a meditation hike which was life changing. A moving meditation, love that. It was like It was amazing. And just like so many like gratitude things, like it was just so, mm-hmm. Sound healing. Sound healing. Yeah. All the things. What was that like? The aerial yoga. I was trying to think what I, yoga was fun. So yeah, like all of that. And and you know, I went by myself. And I was in the middle of this desert. I've never been to the desert before and literally just fully forced to just like take care of myself and like fully be by myself and like focus on myself and like be super introspective. And like, I really felt for the first time, like this is truly what taking care of yourself actually looks like. And and the reason why it's because I wasn't just at a beach fucking laying down and like drinking alcohol, you know, I was like doing work like I was like meditating. I was like going in, not distracting more, not numbing more like. Experiencing it. Oh, I love that. So I absolutely fell in love with it. I ended up going back three times and I remember the first time I went, I'm like, fuck, if I could get my hairstylist here, if I can get my students here with me, like the transformation that they would. have because like we said, we were talking about earlier, like there is a lot of emotions that come into like your worth as a business owner. And it is important for you personally to work on yourself personally to be able to show up better as a business owner. Right. So I'm so glad that you decided to go that route. And just for, cause I know some people who are going to your experience are going to listen to this. And just for a little behind the scenes, like Hunter was on the phone with me that morning, trying to decide, decide like, okay, I'm selling tickets. to this. Do I go the Savannah route that is so true to me that has, you know, transformed me so much that has like been this place for me? Or like, do I think about budget and do I get them somewhere else? And I'm so glad that you went that route and I can't wait to have a conversation after that experience because I think you so went the right way with that. And I love that your people are going to get to be there with you. Savannah is on my vision board. I have not been there yet. I'm going to Arizona over the Thanksgiving break and Hunter's like, I'm gonna tell you one time and one time only, you better fucking go there. Yeah, bro. We'll see if I do. Don't play, don't play. It's amazing. That's so You know, it's not just Savannah, you know, like, and then the other thing that I learned too, I was like, I really want to bring these skills and like these, this, like the lessons I learned home with me because like, what is it if I just take care of myself for a week out of the year? Then like, what does that even mean? Like, that's not going to make a difference. So I also learned a lot of things that I took home with me. I started to like get way more into doing yoga more consistently. I started skiing again. I've been skiing since I was like very, very young, but like now I literally will go by myself and I'll just like have so much fun. I'm so excited that it's getting colder out and I'm like ski season is coming around. So I'm just finding a lot of. Things in my personal life that are making me feel fulfilled and it's been a really magical journey I moved to a place that I've been that I've probably always low key subconsciously wanted to move But I always talked myself out of you know So I also want to just one more touch on that because it popped in my head when you were talking this is how I feel Cuz I just got back from a mastermind event as well also when you get to the point that you have the means and the privilege and the ability to Experience these things. It's really cool to push yourself to do that so that you can bring it back to your people who don't have to go to that extent of being in those rooms or or that like that's how I even felt being in my mastermind event is just like, how can I take pieces of this back with me not to copy but like I had to pay a lot of money to be in that room. You know, my people can't isn't that's not where they're going to end up. So I think it's really cool. Just pushing yourself out there to experience these Higher level things so that you can then bring it back to them. Okay, that's, that's really good. And then another thing, I guess I will go there with it. You've obviously had your few solo trips, but then you just did, I think, probably fair to say the biggest that you've pushed yourself outside of your comfort zone because you just got back from a trip to Europe and even booking that you like to talk about the like program that you found. And because I think there's so many people, Hunter, yeah. With the means and without the means that are just like, I don't, I feel lonely. Like I don't, I don't have the desire to go do that. Or like, I'm afraid to go do that. And I, I think you're so inspiring and how you just make that happen. Well, fuck the trip. Go on a fucking hike in your local area. That's true. Like, go, like, fuck the means, you know what I mean? Like, go on a fucking, like, trip in your local area. Like, just go do a day trip that is completely feasible and, like, affordable for yourself. Like, just go do something for yourself. Fucking open up a YouTube video and go do yoga in the middle of a fucking park. Or meditate in the middle of a park. Like, you can fucking make that happen for yourself, whether it means, like, you're going on this massive crazy trip or not, you know? Yeah. But I will say, so I went on a Europe trip. I went on a 17 day Europe trip. I had never been overseas. My parents, my entire life, they, we didn't go on, we went on a fair bit of vacations for sure. But like, it was, it was like Disney or like Universal or like just beach. And they were always like, Oh, we don't want to do the long flight. And I was always jealous of like all the other kids who were like going and like fucking exploring and like doing crazy shit. So I was sick of waiting for my friends. So like, just go and like travel internationally. I was like, I'm not gonna find anybody else who's gonna be able to do this with me. So I'm done waiting and I'm gonna do it. And I was really scared of traveling internationally. Language barriers freak me out. I'm like, have like this stupid fear of them. It's so annoying. It's just like, I'm just like so scared of like getting lost. Or like saying the wrong thing or like being annoying to somebody, you know. And so, I found this agency, however, that, like, puts you together with people between the ages of, like, 18 and 35. And then, so you'll go there and they, like, map out your entire itinerary and, like, everything's all included. And then you have this, like, group of other people your age who you can go with. They even have, like, a, they have one that's, like, 40, I think 35 plus as well. And they also have a college one as well, too. That's so smart. I just, I think that's such a cool way to travel, and I would never think to do that on my own. I would totally be waiting to get a friend or convince a friend to go with me. And you said you had the best experience with these people. It was amazing. I mean, you guys are, I mean, we're hairdressers, girl. We can get along with anyone. We know how to talk to people. You know, even if you're shy, like, we know how to, like, create some sort of small connection. And there was a plenty of shy people who went, actually. And I think that doing something like that. Doing something like that really is like the, the push. It is like the, the jump. And I think a jump where like you said, like I have a lot of evidence in my life that like doing these scary jumps is important. So that or like helpful and like it's not as scary on the other end. And the more that you can give your brain evidence that things aren't as scary or aren't as catastrophic or uncomfortable, the easier it gets, right? So give your brain some evidence, dude, even if it means something small that you're scared of doing. Again, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be these Europe trips. It doesn't have to be fucking going to Savannah. It can just literally be something very tiny that you're scared of doing. You know, go to a fucking movie by yourself. Go eat some lunch by yourself. Like, just like go like. Be with yourself, and like, even if it feels scary or uncomfortable in the beginning, like, just push fucking through it because it'll get easier and easier as you go, and it'll be worth it at the end. Yeah, and life literally gets so much better the more you like to be with yourself. Like, there's so many people, I remember feeling that way, there's so many people in Soul Tribe, we like, go through this like, journey together. And they're like, Oh my God, white space. Like I run as far away from that as I can. I don't want to be alone with my own thoughts. It's dark there. Like that means you need to do that. Like if you don't like being with you, how do you think anybody else would like being with you? And I think you are really such a testament to that. So thank you for sharing those things. And I know you say it doesn't have to be the year, but it doesn't have to be that, but there, we have a lot of people hunter in our world that do have the means to do that and won't go that far. They'll go out to dinner by themselves. They'll do those things. And I think constantly pushing that. You really are my friend that, like, does do that, and I really look up to that. So I do think it's worth sharing and making you, and making you highlight that, even though it feels a little bit weird to talk about. Okay couple more questions before we wrap up. I'm asking most of my people that I'm interviewing, do you have, like, a book or a something that has, like, Changed your life more than anything else. Maybe, maybe what you're reading right now and then maybe like what has changed your life the most. I hate when people ask me this. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have given you a heads up, but I know you have them because you've given me two books that have changed my life already, so don't tell me you don't. you business books, you know what the t but we're talking real personal, we're talking deep right now. I mean, it can go whatever route you want it to go. So my T is. Okay. Okay, a business book. Business book that completely like changed the way that I market to people and I learned how to market to people is Donald Miller's how to build a story brand. Like very easy, easy read it. Donald makes everything so simple and the concept is just, it's like one flip of a switch in your brain and then like. It's just so good. So that's a really nice, like easy, good business book to read. Never lose a customer again. I forget what the fuck the author's name is. Never lose a customer again. Really, really, really good. It talks all about retention. It talks about the disconnect between marketing and then the actual fulfillment of the experience of the customer. And it's a great listen and a great read, however you want to consume it. But then Personally, I know for me, my journey as far as my personal life goes has been a very specific to me being a gay man and also like breaking, like going through a breakup and like all that stuff. So other than that, what I would say is, is I think that like, I learned most lessons from myself. I learned most lessons from my fucking experiences that I go through every single fucking day. And I think it's important to like sit down, talk to a friend and reflect on those lessons, reflect on those experiences in a productive way. Like I know that when you and I talk to each other, like, I feel like we have pretty productive conversations. Like I'll call you and like, I'm like talking about how much dread I have and how scared I am about whatever, but we talk it through and we like, think about what is causing that. What's the worst that can happen? How could we shift it? Do we actually want that shift? Oh no, I don't. Yeah, exactly. So like having a support or friend to reflect that with, even if it's just journaling and writing down all of those thoughts. Just don't forget that like life is the greatest teacher. I feel like, you know, and you are going through lessons and experiences every day that I think that they should not be taken for granted. Your quote unquote failure shouldn't be taken for granted and your successes should not be taken for granted at all. And you should be like take a second to like step back and reflect on them and understand what you're learning from them. And I think that's the best. The best journey and book and story that you can learn from overall. That is a good answer. I like that. So you definitely are more business books because I'm like, you have, you know, so much, and you have read so much. There's no way you're not reading books when nobody's looking, but it sounds like they are mostly business. Yeah, it's and even just you saying that, like how impactful the breakup was and stuff too. It's just interesting to hear, like how big of a part of your story that has been. And as your friend, like watching you go through that, it's, it's just an interesting perspective. And it's really, it's really cool how you've been so intentional these last few years and I'm sure are going to continue to. So this has been beautiful. I read Hunter kind of my idea of what we were going to talk about. And he's like, we are not going to get to all that. I'm like, I think we are. And we did. We do it. We do it. You did that was how yeah, I love we totally did. So we can go ahead and wrap up. I do want to just touch on the giveaway one more time. Hunter, reiterate what the template fault is for everybody. Yeah, dude. Like, let me just pull it up so that way I don't miss anything. But basically, like, if you hate doing. This businessy shit, especially if you hate like writing things or like creating things on Canva. If you want to make sure that your policies are like really like legit we actually had a paralegal write up these policies for us. I'm not a lawyer. We don't guarantee anything. Thing like that, like, don't sue me. Mm-hmm. However, they are very legit. Like the language in it is very legit. So we give you an advanced policies vault. It has a a liability waiver. I could go into a whole fucking rant about how you should have a liability waiver. You asked me the three policies that are essential. That is your number fucking one. Can you imagine if somebody had some sort of crazy situation in your chair and, like, they died or they fucking their scalp burned off, whatever it could be, and you got sued for it? That would not be cute, okay? So, liability waiver. Cancellation policy, redo policy, product return policy, card on file agreements, salon etiquette policy, and so much more. We give you a business materials vault. It has so many different graphics, QR code, business cards, salon amenity menus, in salon pamphlets, digital onboarding packet, client verbiage vault for having a shit ton of difficult conversations, firing clients, price increases, all that stuff. We're actually retiring our digital forms template vault, but here's the tea. You, my friend, are going to get that. If you win this giveaway, we'll figure it out special, special, like we're doing, we're keeping the digital template vault just for soul tribe. All right. Caption templates, literally 50 done for you. Social media captions with 50 topic prompts, 50 hooks, 30 calls to actions. So you can mix and match. And it literally becomes like Thousands of different caption combinations, email templates, welcome email sequence, passive retail sales, emails, post visit emails, not new client post visit, nurture emails, social posts of graphics, carousels, highlight covers a model contract for when you have a hair model coming in. And maybe they're an influencer or they're not an influencer and they're just somebody that you're taking pictures of and you want to. Posts on your social or whatever it may be. So there's a shit ton of value in here. And the total value I think is like 500 or something like that. So, and for anybody listening, they're like, Oh, wow, that's a lot. And obviously whoever wins, that's really, you don't talk about that enough Hunter. Can I just say, you should be talking with them more because there's a lot of fucking value in there. But I, if you're listening audio you can also get. Like each one of those individually. You don't have to get all of them. Like if any of those sound good to you, but you don't need all of them, I'll put the link in the show notes and everything if that sounds intriguing to you. So thank you. And then, yeah, as for all the giveaway rules that will be talked about in the previous podcast, so you will have known by now. But thank you, Hunter for throwing that in. You are just really such a good friend and I can always count on you to support me and have my back. I need to say something too. So I literally actually was thinking about this like, because I was like, Oh my God, I get to chat with Lisa on the podcast, which is so exciting and cool. But I was thinking about like, I was thinking about how like, the energy that you bring to your own life to the people around you to your community and to the world is just so special. Like, seriously, like, it's really, and you know this, we talked about this, it's really rare for me to connect with, like, new people on the same level, on a level that I've connected with you on, and I think that's due to you just making anybody, including myself, feel so comfortable and safe with you, and like, you just You just the way that you show up every single fucking day. It's so intentional. It's so beautiful and it's so positive and you're truly making a difference in the world every single day. And it's just, it's just really, I'm so proud to call you a friend. I'm so honored that you Like, would call me a best friend, like, because, like, for me, I'm like, I'm not worthy. Like, Lisa is just so fucking, such a beautiful person and, like, I can't believe that, like, we get to connect on this. Yeah. I'm very appreciative of it. So I love you. Thank you so much for the impact that you're making in the industry. Thank you for the impact that you've made in my life because I would not have been able to have this journey at all if it was not for you and your friendship. So I just really appreciate you. My God, I love you. The feeling is obviously very mutual. This was good. Thank you, Hunter. I, I'm recording podcasts all day today and I was a little nervous when I woke up this morning. So this was a great start. Hell yeah. I appreciate you so much. Thank you everybody for listening. All of the information that you will need based on everything we talked about, I will make sure I load it up in the show notes. And Hunter, I just love you, friend. Thank you. Love you. Yeah.